Molly Claire 00:45

All right, coaches, we are going to have a fantastic conversation today. I have one of my master coaches, Jackie Swainson, here. She is a master midlife coach. And we are talking about midlife for women and what this means for women in midlife and what we're not prepared for and how to navigate change and all of these unknowns. So whether you're in midlife, you feel you're past it, you feel you're not yet there, trust me, this conversation is going to be enriching and I just can't wait. So welcome to the podcast, Jackie. Thank you. 

Jackie Swainson 01:26

Thank you very much my friend Molly, how are you? 

Molly Claire 01:28

Oh, I'm so good. You know, we were just, Jackie and I were just chatting before we hit record here and we're just talking about and opening up this idea of, first of all, how difficult change is for us as human beings, right? And then in midlife, this space that we can feel unprepared and unknown, right? So you asked how I'm doing and then I went off on a tangent about how excited I am about this, but I am great because we're going to have a good conversation. 

Jackie Swainson 01:57

Yes, we will, for sure. Absolutely, happy to be here. 

Molly Claire 02:01

Okay, so Jackie, let's talk about navigating change, because those of you listening, you know, I talk about this on the podcast all the time, this four-pronged approach that I take, that I teach to my master coaches, and of course that Jackie uses within her business, which is navigating change is an example of something that's difficult, and there are many reasons why, and we want to address it mentally, emotionally, understanding actions, all of that stuff. So all that being said, Jackie, within this framework of acknowledging the whole person, right, as you're thinking about your clients and these women, why is it so hard for us to face change? 

Jackie Swainson 02:45

Well, a lot of it is because we become so busy doing all the things that we're doing that we don't, and we get into routines and habits and our brain loves patterns. So we just love to have patterns and that's what habits are, they're patterns. And so the way we think, the way we feel, the way we react, it's all a pattern that's ingrained in us. And so when we start to think that we might need to change, there's a resistance, mentally, physically, emotionally, because there's fear that, well, what does that mean? What is change going to be? And when you're raising a family or working in your earlier years, you're usually governed by outside changes with family demands on work and things that are pushing you to change with it. But once you hit this phase of midlife, things are quieter, kids are gone, home is empty, your relationship with your partner has new strains, all those things are different. And you have to recreate your life and your identity and yourself. And that's a scary thing, because we think we know who we are. And we reach that point, it's like, is this who am I without any of these things that are telling me what I am? Who am I? Who is Jackie? What does she believe? What do I do? And it's frightening. 

Molly Claire 04:10

Yeah, and you know, I wanted to highlight a couple of things that Jackie just said, you know, as you were listening to her, you know, to you, Jackie, talking about, it seems like in that younger time in life, you were talking about these outside structures. And what came to mind is, for me, is kind of this idea almost like, there seem to be already a lot of what seem like rules, right? Like these imposed rules are structures. So, we just follow through that, right? And it's almost like, in midlife, there can be so not that there aren't variables earlier, there are always variables in life, right? But there can be so many different variables and almost more of an open space. So I think it's this interesting time in a human being, where already there are changes going on within ourselves, within our bodies, like everything, right? And then there's kind of this wide open space. 

Jackie Swainson 05:00

Wide open space and a lot of quiet so the noise of messy life every day that messy middle part of your life is gone for the most part there are times when it comes back but it's your just realize that not that you're on your own but you're standing without all those other things supporting you now you have to find a way to support and move forward because it's not the end of life trust me it's a wonderful fabulous time of life but it's scary when you first get there and I've been through that so I know.

Molly Claire 05:37

I want to highlight a couple other things that you said, because, you know, in thinking about, you know, for example, when if we've had kids, right, we have kids, and then they're getting older and going, we're used to having a focus of raising them, right, there's those places that our mind is directed, right? And so that's just one example, but then it's like, not only do you have to navigate the change in those relationships, right, but it also typically means less focus on that area of your life. 

Jackie Swainson 06:13

You have to find with that other people are motivating you when you have your kids and your family and your husband, like everything, your job, you've got an external motivation so that you can't ignore whether you're, you know, whether you're self motivated or not, you discover if you are when you reach those quiet times. And so we have to find within ourselves that motivation, we have to discover what motivates us, we have to decide how we're motivate ourselves, because those other things are not there. 

Molly Claire 06:46

Right, right. And one of the things that you said that really stood out, right, is this like knowing who we are, which is such a big thing. And I think it can be so ambiguous, right? What does that even mean? And of course, we dive into this in Master Coach training, like over and over again, right? It's the core of the work. And I think it's relevant for each of us as my listeners, coaches building our business that we truly know who we are. It's relevant for all of you listening, all of your clients in terms of meeting their goals. And I think for you, Jackie, for women in midlife, there is, I think there's a unique opportunity within that, who am I? Because not only is there the space for it, but it's kind of like, okay, it's time, right? It's time. I have to figure this out, or I'm not sure what my next steps are. Well,

Jackie Swainson 07:40

And a lot of times, I mean, I'll speak for myself and some of my clients, they've gone through life and they thought they knew who they were because they were defined by roles, responsibilities, things in the community, things that needed to be done because they were busy. Once that slows down and we hit the change, you know, menopause and go through all that stuff, which itself is a minefield, then we realized that I realized myself that I didn't really know me. Like I knew how I reacted, I knew what was driving me outside, but I needed to find some kind of internal drive. And that's a difficult process because it challenges some of my beliefs. And the beliefs are just like, our whole life has built up beliefs that we think about ourselves because of the way we've defined ourselves and our roles. And you get to the point where it's like, okay, those aren't really what I believe, or I don't want to believe that I want to change. And so it's a hard process and slow, which is good. I think slow and steady is the way to build success. And it literally changes our view of what's going on around us and how we can handle the different circumstances that we might have to deal with at that time in our life. 

Molly Claire 09:01

Yes. As you're talking and I'm thinking about just all of these changes in that time of life, in our physical bodies, in figuring out what's next, who am I? I mean, having the support of a coach is a big deal, right? And what's so funny about it, we kind of know this, right? As coaches, it's like we know clients have to kind of justify sometimes like hiring someone to help us, right? And it's like, it's so interesting because this is a time when truly the reason is I just need support. I need this for me. And what a beautiful declaration for a woman to say, I want help and I'm going to ask for it. And maybe I deserve to have some incredible support while I'm navigating something that's really challenging for me. 

Jackie Swainson 09:56

Absolutely. And, when you talk about a difference, like there's a coach and there's friends and family, you know, friends and family are very kind and gentle and sometimes they're not. But sometimes, you know, there's hard truths and it's like smacks you in the face. It's like, well, okay, I didn't know that and you make it your feelings hurt. And a coach is, in my view, for me, I'm a coach who's been through this experience, who has been trained and learned and dug really deep into the psychology, the feelings, like you talked about the nervous system, the body, the mind, our emotions, all of those things. And so I can be that objective support. So, you know, anything that said, I'm not going to just, you know, comment on. This is a process of helping someone discover themselves and leading the process and making observations and asking questions. And they're not the questions are like, it's a safe place. It's very personal. It's very quiet. It's very liberating to have someone who you're talking to, who is just there to support you. That's what they're doing. Instead of saying, well, you should do this, this, this, and this. There's your solution. If you just do those four things, life would be great. 

Molly Claire 11:14

It doesn't really work that way. 

Jackie Swainson 11:15

It does not work that way. As a coach, we create a safe and accepting environment to have these deep conversations. And there's sometimes tears, there's sometimes anger, there's sometimes frustration with the client, because those are the feelings we're feeling. And it's a safe place to let those out and explore them and then try to work through them. So there's so much reward in being a coach because you want to help people, because we've been helped by a coach or by others. But also every time we coach someone, we are learning, we are growing. So it's not really selfish, but it's a two-way relationship. 

Molly Claire 12:01

It's really nice, right? Like what a gift that we're able to help our clients in such an incredible way. And the best like side benefit, right? Like I run my own business so I don't get the benefits that I might have with a corporation, but come on. Like talk about amazing benefits because we are constantly having our mind and our heart set on growth and the things that matter. Absolutely, oh yeah, yeah, it's great. It's so great. And so one thing I wanna comment on, so we're talking here with Jackie about navigating change and change is so hard. And as you all are listening and thinking about yourself navigating change, your clients navigating change, there are legitimate reasons as to why it is hard for us as human beings to face change, right? And so we'll just break this down. Of course, we know when Leah teaches in Master Coach training, I love that she calls it the old brain and the new brain. It's like so simple, right? And so in our nervous system, we have our old brain which says, do not change anything, right? I'm fine the way I am. Yes, avoid pain, seek pleasure, conserve energy. And those things just scream to keep everything exactly the same, do not change. And so that's why, right? When change presents itself, we can experience that fear and that resistance, right? That's that part of our brain. Then we have the new brain where we have our prefrontal cortex, which we talk about it as the center of change, right? This is where we can think creatively, think strategically, planning ahead, right? All that executive functioning and the creativity. I bring up the creativity again, because that creativity, when someone can access it with a skilled coach like you, it's what allows us to see new possibilities and actually embrace change, right? It's what softens the process of creating new neural pathways of thinking differently. So I say all that because you know this, Jackie, right? That there are reasons why change feels difficult for your clients. And so just tell us a little bit about like, some of the ways that you work with your clients to ease that process for them. 

Jackie Swainson 14:34

I mean, there's lots of different ways depending on the individual and what they, you know, what they respond to and what, how they think. And once we get to know them, but, you know, we talk a little bit about why are you avoiding change? Why is there that resistance so that they can understand, or we all understand that that is a normal thing. Anxiety is a response to change or fear. And we can, we can condition our body over time with some simple exercises or vision statements or do a vision board. There's different things that we can do that challenge that we can have, not just in our brain, but we're looking at something or we're, you know, tapping or we're breathing or meditating. So mind, body, soul, like doing everything altogether and connecting those three. So that's not just our mind that's directing what we're doing. It's that part of our brain that has the creativity and, you know, letting them understand why they avoid change and also, you know, what the power of vision is. So, you know, we can, in coach speak and business, that's like finding your why. So it's like, you know, to understand it's like, what is it I want to do? What is my purpose? What do I want it to be? And I think one of the biggest fears that people have, the hardest part is looking back and sort of reconciling your past with who you are because we don't process a lot of the things that are happening along the way because we just are stressed. We're busy. We're stressed. Our brain is full and we don't have time to. And then when all that stuff is gone, you can't start something new without reconciling that something old. And once you can do that part of it, change really honestly, Molly becomes easier. It becomes more palatable. It becomes more, I can do this. So if I don't want to, I can, and I will not just right now, I will. It's what I will. And here's my plan to do that. And so it's one step at a time, small steps, you know, small successes in the end, you know, make a tower and then we're at the top of it. 

Molly Claire 16:46

You know, as you were talking, I was thinking about how any time as we're facing change and for your clients, right? Here I am in midlife, where are the rules? What's next? I think that oftentimes a big fear that comes up, you know, for me, for my clients, and I'm sure you see this, is somewhat of a fear of, I won't know how to do this. What if I can't do this? What if I can't figure this out? And that was coming to my mind. And then as you talked about this reconciling of the past, I thought, you know, I'm imagining you because I know you as a coach, I know how connected you are with people and supportive you are of your clients. And I'm just imagining that process of that reconciling and facing that. I would imagine that that is one for your clients of building greater confidence in self and feeling a bit stronger and really appreciating the strength in themselves and the good that they've done and all they've experienced. And I would imagine that is a powerful tool to carry them forward through the changes. 

Jackie Swainson 17:54

It is and sort of reconciling that past and going there on those hard things that we haven't really completely let go of like we carry them. And once they you know, it's it's like a one of those aha moments It's like they say something and then I can't believe I said that I've been whole and then it's you know, they recognize that they had been carrying that All along these many years and they've been carrying it and it's been guiding their decisions and it's been sort of muddying the waters right and and so this is a time of life to really get any time of life is good but for me, this was the time of life to gain clarity So that I can and another thing that that happens is they they get to this phase of life All these things are happening. Maybe their relationships with their children are not great because they haven't learned how to be a parent to adult children who have their own families and that you don't parent anymore or their kids are making choices that they wouldn't make. So sometimes there's some real tough strain there. They're realizing that they they have to stand on their own and be their own person first. Now's the time and prepare for the future which isn't you know, we all know that they can be different than we imagined But if you do the work now and get rid of that excess stuff that's stopping you from wanting change It becomes easier.

Molly Claire 19:20

Yes. And, you know, it's so funny as you were talking, Jackie, literally. So just this morning, I had a call with my coach. And, you know, I would say, I'm fairly self-aware. I'm aware of my emotions, I journal, I do all these things, right? And none of us are exempt from not realizing we are carrying things. Period, right? And so it's like, I was on this call this morning and I've been feeling, I mean, I genuinely thought I was fine and settled with the situation, right? And then because I'm there with my coach and we all know, right? When you're with a coach, when you're with a good coach where you feel safe, it's almost like these things just, they come to the surface. It's like your brain and your body, everything says, this is the place to have this cared for, right? And so here I come with my coach and there come the tears. And I'm thinking, I didn't realize this was there. And so how much more then, right? These women coming to you. And that's why, I mean, what better time and life? I mean, we should always have a coach, right? But like in midlife, when it's true, there are so many things that have not had the time and attention, right? That has been carried underneath that they don't realize until they have someone like you to be there with them so that as those things surface, they can have support to sift through them. 

Jackie Swainson 20:41

Yeah. And one of the things that I do with my clients to start with is to sort of identify what obstacles they might think that they have to making changes, like to self identify. I'm not going to point them out to them because I don't know their life and their mind and their personality, but you know, what, what do you think is, what's holding you back? Let's talk about what some of your obstacles might be. And you start off in just a general, but that gives you a guide and gives them a guide to understand, okay, these things need attention. They need some resolution and that idea that they need that resolution is the first step to change. 

Molly Claire 21:17

Mm, yes, yes, yes, right? Because a lot of us, we don't realize it, especially, right? Especially because so many of us, and I'm including myself in this camp because I'm still recovering from this and I probably will do the rest of my life. But because so many of us, we just dismiss our feelings and we say, I'm okay, I'm fine with it. It's okay, right? It was in the past like I've let it go. But have we really? Because it's not necessarily about letting it go, but it's about allowing us to see what's there and attend to those feelings and allow them to move through us and process. And most of us do not realize unless we have that help, right? 

Jackie Swainson 21:54

It’s so true. We try to protect ourselves and insulate ourselves by shelving things away in our brain because we actually have every memory, everything we've done, everything we've experienced is somewhere in our brain. And it's like when you have grief, it never goes away. You just find a place for it to settle in your brain and it comes out and you deal with it when it comes out. And then sort of, so we need to understand that our past life may have some wrinkles in it, but there are also a lot of good things that we can focus on instead of the wrinkles. The wrinkles will still be there. You just process them because you can't remove them. You can't undo them. But let's iron them out a bit and just put them in perspective to what you're going to do today forward. 

Molly Claire 22:38

Yes. Okay. I want to shine a light on something here that Jackie said. So, you know, as you were listening and what I heard Jackie was that we can have these wrinkles, right? These things, not to be confused with the wrinkles that also come with midlife, you know, there's another topic, but these things, these events, maybe regrets, things like this. And you know, when you said, I know I'm not using your exact words, but you're going to get the gist of this, right? It's like, we don't want those wrinkles to hold us back or allow us to not move forward. And it's really important to notice what Jackie said specifically, which is those wrinkles, those things we need to reconcile, they also need to be addressed and attended to. Because I think the mistake is if we're either stuck in the past or we say, Oh, well, the past is the past. It's over. I'm moving forward. But we're actually in little ways bringing the past with us. And that's why, right? What you offer is this space to say, we're not going to dwell on the past. We're not going to be stuck in the past, but we are definitely going to invite the past in right now so that we can genuinely feel this openness and resolution so that moving forward feels more open and free. 

Jackie Swainson 24:03

Absolutely, Molly. While you were saying that, I was thinking of one client that I had that, in her mind, changing and creating a new self. She was like running away from her past experiences. And that was her goal. And when she got to a certain point, she realized, I can't run away from them. I've got to face them. I've got to recognize them. They're not today. She was looking at change as putting away everything and staying with a brand new slate. But change doesn't negate our lives. It just takes us to a new place of where we want to be. We don't change for someone else. We need to change for ourselves, which then changes a lot of other things. But change is inevitable. It's all around us every day. And we just need to jump on. It's the one constant. That's right. And we just need to jump on. It's like when you plant a garden. You've got this beautiful piece of land. It's all ready to put. You plant it and you're waiting for those vegetables to come up and you're so excited. Then all of a sudden, the first thing you see are weeds. Like, what the heck? I planted seeds. Where's my carrots? Where's the lettuce? You've got to tend to them and take them out. And that's not the end of it. You keep having to, in order to create the good environment for all these beautiful vegetables to grow and flourish so that you can enjoy them, you always, until the very end, have to keep pulling out the weeds. And if you don't, they overgrow any positive. You get these tiny, tiny little carrots. So the results that you get, if you don't go through your garden and keep paying attention to these weeds, is you're going to get teeny, tiny vegetables or flowers that don't properly bloom. And it's just what's going to happen. So that's the process of change that I like. I sort of use that analogy because that's what changing is. Pulling a weed and dealing with it and bringing out the best parts of what you've planted. 

Molly Claire 26:11

Oh my gosh. I love that. And as you were talking about pulling out the weeds, I'm just thinking of the space that allows for all the good and the beauty to flourish because it has the space and nothing is routing it out. Okay. I want to just, I want to share one more thought that I had and then I'm going to have Jackie tell you. Jackie has an awesome journal for midlife and she also offers a complimentary session. So we're going to talk about that. I'm going to have you share that in just a minute, Jackie. But you know, one other thing that has come to mind as we're talking about this and those of you listening think about, you know, certainly for you, if you're in midlife, if you're going through, you know, that transition or any transition, I think that one of the things that can make certain times in our life so overwhelming is when there are many different changes and situations happening at once because it challenges our capacity. And you know, I remember I went through my divorce like 10 years ago and I remember feeling like I did process, I cried, I did all that stuff through it, but then it wasn't until things settled that I started having a lot come up that I hadn't been able to actually face. And that's what I keep thinking about. And that's why I think that, you know, in midlife, it is this point where potentially, right, there is this space and time for all of that to come up. And at the same time, there are so many changes happening. And so just what a crucial time to have a coach, especially because with that support, what incredible openness and beauty and thriving can happen in that, like, you know, next chapter of life. 

Jackie Swainson 28:04

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And you've got it. The bonus is it's not somebody who you have a personal connection with, like an emotional connection with. 

Molly Claire 28:13

Yeah, as a coach you mean, like when you're, yeah, right, right. 

Jackie Swainson 28:15

So, or the, my client has, if I'm talking to my husband or my friends, I mean, I have emotional connections, which cloud my judgment and their judgment. So this is a space where that's not there. And so you're free to just be. 

Molly Claire 28:32

Yes, yes. Okay, so jackieswainson.com is your website. Jackie Swainson coach. Oh, Jackie Swenson coach. Okay. And this is all in the show notes, by the way. So you guys can check the show notes, Jackie Swenson and your midlife journal that is there. I know we have the link for that in the show notes as well. And the link to your mini session. But yeah, your midlife journal. I know that is like some really great prompts to help people start sifting through what

Jackie Swainson 29:05

It is because sometimes we have to know where to start thinking because if I start to think sometimes about something, that's why I journal because I've got like 20 things in here. In my brain. It's okay. Just focus, Jackie, focus. What is the focus? And so they're just thoughtful questions that you can really seriously think about and write down what you were thinking about, like, you know, what have I felt the most successful? You know, when did I feel the biggest failure? What's holding me back from moving forward, like just generalized questions. They're not like this to introduce the idea of self reflection. And yes, I can change and that it's a process. And there's a couple of questions that might go like, what is that question doing here? But you have to kind of change your thought patterns and sort of move around a bit so that you surprise yourself so that you're not always talking about change. You might be talking about this or that or, you know, and journaling is such a powerful tool. So it just gets you started to, you know, taking small steps that you'll create big impact in your life. And it's three thoughtful choices that we create a good life. 

Molly Claire 30:14

Yes, yes. Well, this has been amazing. So everyone listening at a minimum, you should go to Jackie's website, download the journal, use those questions. And definitely any of you that are in midlife, approaching midlife, know someone who is, send them to Jackie, because truly, you know, when you have a coach who has the ability to understand the human psychology behind what's going on for you, understanding the emotions and understanding how to create that support. It's just, it's everything. So yeah. 

Jackie Swainson 30:51

When you go to the website, my website coach is amazing. And so she helped me create this just very beautiful, not me beautiful, but the whole thing is a beautiful experience because it's, it's very calming. It's very, it's very lovely. It's very beautiful. And it really flows. I've got a blog on there. I've got work with me. It's just such a calm going there just to look at it not to look at it i know the pictures but it's like just to look and think you know it's nature-based I love the outdoors I love the ocean so it's like okay I'm just in my spot so just if you want just a peaceful spot for like two seconds just go there and look and you'll get drawn into just feeling what i feel and that's what we want to feel in our lives.

Molly Claire 31:40

I love it. Love it. All right. Thank you so much, Jackie. And thank you so much everyone for being here. And I look forward to talking with you all next week.