Intro: Welcome to the Masterful Coach podcast, with Molly Claire, where coaches learn skill mastery, business mastery, and life mastery at a whole new level. If you’re serious about creating a meaningful coaching business that makes a difference, you’re in the right place. And now your host, master life and business coach, Molly Claire.

Molly Claire: All right coaches. Oh, today’s guest. I love Jamie Berman, and I just—I don’t know if I’ve told you this Jamie, but I feel like you’re like a walking hug.

Jamie Berman: Oh my gosh!

Molly Claire: When you meet Jamie, when you’re in her presence, she’s just so warm and bright and happy and positive, and she’s just brilliant when it comes to coaching. So anyway, I’ve got Jamie Berman here and… she is going to help us with money and money belief. So welcome, Jamie.

Jamie Berman: Thank you so much, what a warm welcome. I am super excited to be here and talk about one of my favorite topics ever, money.

Molly Claire: Money, let’s do it. So, the first thing, just tell my listeners what do you do in your business and why do you love it so much?

Jamie Berman: So, I’m a master certified coach, partially, thanks to you Molly, and I have brought money and manifestation and coaching kind of all together into a program where I help entrepreneurs make money, just like a more fun light topic. Let go of the heaviness around it, and I really help people really shift their relationship with money. Meaning how they think about it, how they feel about it, how they treat their money. Because this can really get in the way in business if we don’t address it, and if it’s a block for us.

Molly Claire: Yes.

Jamie Berman: So, I bring my three favorite things together to support that.

Molly Claire: I love it. So, you’re going to be speaking in my community, that’s opening up, which is so great. Everyone listening that’s going to be there, you’re going to learn more from Jamie, and you’re going to be teaching about that relationship with money.

Jamie Berman: That’s right.

Molly Claire: And it’s just awesome, so I’m super excited to have you in there. And one thing Jamie, when you were talking and you said “kind of a light more fun experience of money,” I think so often whether it’s money or anything else. It’s like, we think we need to—how do we beat this new belief into my head? Right? How do I manage my mind enough and do enough things? And it seems like it’s kind of heavy, right? It’s this big thing we think we have to fix. And so I love when you said that, like “Just what if it could just be lighter, easier?”

Jamie Berman: Totally. And I think just the way so many of us have been taught about money—I know for me, it was this big, heavy topic that I never wanted to look at, because I thought it was this big, serious thing. And once I finally started to do the work on it, I’m like, “No, this can be fun, this can be a fun experience of looking at money, shifting my relationship with money and my experience of having money and playing with money and all of that.” So, I love bringing that into it.

Molly Claire: Because money, a lot of people have so much stress associated with money, so much of their worth tied up in money and not only getting money, right? But like you said, “even being able to use money and enjoy it” because there’s just—I mean, there’s a lot of thoughts and feelings wrapped up in it, right?

Jamie Berman: Yes, there are, absolutely. And I think whenever you can start to unravel the one you just mentioned of the amount of money that I have equals my worth or as entrepreneurs or coaches, the amount of money that I have equals how successful I can see myself. When we start to break those apart, it’s just a completely different experience with money.

Molly Claire: Yes. And you’ve kind of spoken to this, but I would love for you to kind of summarize, what is your philosophy about money?

Jamie Berman: So, the way that I see money is it’s really just a resource or a tool that helps us fully express ourselves, right? So, I like to think of it as, it’s just something that supports me and being able to say “Yes” to my most soulful desires, the things that I want to experience in this lifetime, it supports me and being able to have the business that I love and be able to share my gifts with the world. Without money, I can’t do that.

So, it’s just a tool and it’s a resource. Even though I also see it as something that every human for the most part is going to be in relationship with, we’re all going to use this tool. So, in terms of my philosophy around money, it’s looking at it as a relationship, like looking at it, what is my relationship with money? Is that we’re a human.

How would I describe that relationship? Is it kind of toxic? Is it avoidant? Do I hide from it? And how can I shift to start kind of falling in love with money, to at least start accepting it, to at least start there, right? Start looking at it, start treating it like it’s important or something that’s important in my life.

And just start cultivating a better relationship with it. And I find that when you do that, not only does it completely transform the way that you feel when you’re around money, but also for me, my experiences, it’s allowed me to call in more money.

Molly Claire: So, I want to ask you something about this idea of loving money and your relationship with money, because my guess is a lot of people would probably immediately think, “Well, yeah, I love money, of course it’s not really hard to love money,” but you’re talking about something different than that. So can you articulate that a little bit?

Jamie Berman: Yes. So what I would say is, “if you love money, do you think about it in a loving way? Do you treat it in a loving way? What is the full relationship in terms of how you most consistently think about money? How you feel about money? And then, how you treat your money? That’s like—are all of those in alignment with love? Most of the time people are like, “No, I love the idea of money, but I’m not someone who can have it, or I love the idea of money,” and they’re like, “And it means all of these things about me.” That’s not really love.

Molly Claire: And also even that idea of like, “Yeah, I love money. I want to take it, right? I want to take it and have it and find it and hoard it,” which I wouldn’t want to be in a relationship with someone that was doing that to me.

Jamie Berman: I’m always saying, “Well, then that means you don’t trust money, right? If you have to afford money, that’s not a very loving relationship because you don’t trust it, you don’t trust that it can come back if you release money, which money likes to flow, right? Just like, if you were in relationship with a human, you don’t have to hide it in a closet for you to have it. No, you have to develop some trust with it that it’s always there for you, and that even if you let it go, it will come back 100%.

Molly Claire: And as you were talking, I remember…kind of early in my getting into coaching in this world and working with several different practitioners. And I remember a coach doing a visualization exercise with money, and it was this idea of thinking about money. If money were a car, what kind of car would it be? And having me describe things, and the car I thought of was like the smallest, most efficient, most economical car. And as we went through this exercise, my inclination was to put it in the garage and close the garage door and just hide it and keep it there. And it was really interesting.

Jamie Berman: Yes.

Molly Claire: And it’s so funny to think back, because as I’ve shifted just the way I view money entirely, I don’t think about it the way that I used to. And one thing that I’ll share that I really went through in a conscious way is, I started to realize how much I really enjoyed paying people well for services I really appreciated.

Jamie Berman: Yes.

Molly Claire: And for example, when I hired a coach for the first time, that was a high-ticket price and I would’ve thought it was crazy, but I was like, “Hey, I am going to change my life, and this is me investing in that.” And then I would consciously notice, when someone would help me in the yard or do little things, I remember consciously thinking, “I’m so excited to pay this person well,” because this is me showing so much gratitude for this. And I really feel it impacted not only how I felt about paying for things and brought joy, but I think it had a huge impact on me feeling great about having people pay me as well.

Jamie Berman: Yes. Because you could flip that then, and that’s a great opportunity for coaches to look at: Have you invested in something and you wanted to pay, you were excited to pay and had gratitude for it and what that did because you’ve been invested. Flip it around. What’s that going to do for your clients? It’s huge.

Molly Claire: It’s true.

Jamie Berman: There’s an opportunity around both giving and receiving, and developing a better feeling around that. So, I love that you did that practice on purpose around giving money with gratitude, and that’s something that I used to do whenever I was afraid of spending money, right? I would go to the grocery store and I remember I would practice getting better at giving money and I would send it with blessings, and I would send it with gratitude. And I would always think like, “Oh, here are all the people that that’s going to help.” Even whenever I’m just paying for my groceries, I would think about all the people that I was going to bless.

Molly Claire: Yes.

Jamie Berman: And I just noticed, I started feeling so much more at ease about spending money and then the same with receiving.

Molly Claire: And right? And it changes from “One more expense, now I have to pay this person” to, “gosh, I’m so glad that this person exists and they’re willing to help me and that I have the means and funds to pay them.”

It’s a totally different experience.

Jamie Berman: Totally is, and fun.

Molly Claire: So, tell me when you work with people, what do you see most often… how money is really impacting them, their money beliefs? Because we all have different money beliefs, right?

Jamie Berman: Yeah. For entrepreneurs, I think probably the number one thing that I see is this…It’s like trying to build from scarcity, and what I mean by that—or building from not enough. So, I see it where they’ll be hitting their goals, yet thinking it’s still not enough, or they’ll be making some money, but it’s like they won’t appreciate it. And they’re like, “But it’s not enough, I need more.” And thinking that you need a quantum leap or a massive launch, or a huge—your first six figure year, in order to appreciate money and see yourself as successful.

So, I see that as building from lack versus building from abundance. And I do think we kind of need to retrain our brain, because it’s primitive, so we do tend to have that negativity bias. But it feels so much better whenever we can start to learn to appreciate what we have and see ourselves as “We’re enough now, this is enough, and from here, I’m excited to create more,” versus “I need to create more because this isn’t enough, I must have all of these money blocks,” right? So…

Molly Claire: Yes.

Jamie Berman: You know what I mean?

Molly Claire: Yes.

Jamie Berman: Or you could just look at your bank account and see that you have money there, actually let’s look at the facts.

Molly Claire: Yes. Oh my gosh, I have so many thoughts. I feel we could just talk all day about all the things coming up, because I do remember at one point that where I was stuck was thinking, I just need to change my money mindset, which of course caused me to feel very stressed out when I thought that, right?

Jamie Berman: Exactly.

Molly Claire: And so, it’s true. It’s so fascinating. And I think you probably know this about me, this is something that was a really big shift for me is…I mean, I remember when I was starting to build my business, really having to confront this belief that I couldn’t make as much money as a man could. And I was horrified that it was there.

Jamie Berman: Yes.

Molly Claire: But it was there, and I was committed to changing it. And I think that’s really common among a lot of women. Would you agree? Do you see that a lot?

Jamie Berman: Oh yeah, 100%. It’s that, I also see a lot of, “I’m not smart enough, I’m not the person who fits a successful CEO. Oh, I don’t like to dress up enough, I don’t look like this person.” So, I think there’s so many versions of that, where we don’t allow ourselves to step into the idea that: me, myself, I can make money just as I am, I don’t have to change myself in order to create money.

Molly Claire: I mean, I love that you said that, because I definitely, I’m not the most fancy person I guess I would say. It’s like, I get to work, I have my work clothes and then I have my tank top and my leggings and I love to go hiking and walking. And so, I enjoy having abundance and spending money on things that I really enjoy, but I guess what I would say is “it’s not that I don’t love luxurious things at times, but that’s just not really something that’s really a big deal for me per se.” And I’ve seen how sometimes I’ve made that mean that, right? Like, “Oh, well, those people that care about luxury have money,” but that’s totally not true, because.

Jamie Berman: I know. There are so many ways to challenge that, right? Where it’s like not just our perception of people who have money, but we have no idea what the people who are walking around with their designer clothes actually have, that’s just the perception of it. And it’s also not who you have to become if you want money. One of my favorite things to do is to ask my clients what their highest values are and how can they just use money to lean more into their values? Versus thinking, “Oh, well I have to be like this, if I’m rich.”

Molly Claire: That’s such a great conversation. One thing I wanted to circle back on really quickly is, you talked about money flowing, right? And money going and coming and going. And it reminded me of—are you familiar with the book Never Eat Alone.

Jamie Berman: No.

Molly Claire: Okay, it’s so good, and it’s all about relationships in business building and how really the relationships we have are how we create abundance and build and all of that, and it’s so good. And I’ve been reading it and especially as I’ve been bringing in all these experts into my community and just creating a great experience for my clients.

One of the things he talked about was how we have to be willing to not keep score on helping people. And what was interesting is that immediately when I read that title and started reading, I assumed that he meant just give generously, like, don’t keep score. But actually, what he said was “Sometimes you have to be willing to accept generosity from other people, and sometimes you have to ask for it.” And he was pointing out that even in relationships and helping one another out, we have to be willing to give and receive abundantly both. And it’s the same thing with money, right?

Jamie Berman: Yes. 100%, and that’s the receiving thing that I do see a lot of people feel very uncomfortable with or very good at giving. But I wish that your giving is tainted, if you’re not equally willing to receive.

And it’s because it’s like they won’t feel comfortable, so if that’s something for your listeners that they stumble with is receiving, is I always say, “Start small, start with just receiving compliments.” If somebody says something, just say, “Thank you.” Don’t feel you have to say something back or don’t feel like, “Oh, well, I don’t know…” you know what I mean? Don’t reject compliments, whatever it is, little gifts, just practice allowing it in. The better you get with that, then with money, it can get easier too.

Molly Claire: I love that. It’s just those little baby steps, right? These little….

Jamie Berman: Totally

Molly Claire: things.

Jamie Berman: Getting your system used to it and seeing that it’s totally safe to receive.

Molly Claire: Now, are there any ways ever that you still struggle with your own money beliefs?

Jamie Berman: Oh, yeah.

Molly Claire: There have to be, right? I’m like, let me tell you, I have my business, my life all figured out perfectly—not at all, right? So we teach these things …

Jamie Berman: Totally

Molly Claire: …but we all still have those things. So like for you, where do you still kind of see money stuff coming up for you at times?

Jamie Berman: Oh my gosh, I feel there’s layers at every level. If we’re all entrepreneurs too, because you reach something that you’ve never had before and it brings something new up that you didn’t have. So, for me, this past year, it was the first year ever, that my husband decided he was making a career transition and he’s kind of let go of this old career that he had., that was bringing in income and decided to do something completely new that most of people would be like, “What are you doing? That’s crazy, what you were doing is successful,” but I was like, “You got to do it,” right?

Of course, the coach in me was like, “No, you can’t not do it,” right? So he just went all in on this. And so we invested a lot in his career, and then I all of a sudden was the one making the money, which that was the first for me, where I was the one bringing in all the money for our living.

I just started freaking out, I didn’t even realize it, but my system was so… nervous about that “responsibility,” and I really had to go in and do some of my own coaching. I had to get coached by my coach, but I have noticed doing this work at all levels and that’s the fascinating thing about money work is, there’s always an opportunity to do it, because I find that at first it’s believing that you have the power to create it, then you start creating it and creating it and creating it. And then it’s like coaching yourself around the belief that it’s not going to leave or something’s not going to happen. So, it’s just, I feel I’ve coached myself around money, since day one

Molly Claire: And will continue to.

Jamie Berman: Totally.

Molly Claire: And I think that’s so important to highlight, because I know all of my listeners are—we all think, “Oh, that person has it figured out, right?” like that leader, mentor, whatever.

We have a lot of things figured out, but we don’t have it all figured out, our work is never done.

Jamie Berman: No, it’s not

Molly Claire: It’s not how it goes, right?

Jamie Berman: It doesn’t change that much, something do, but definitely not everything.

Molly Claire: Not everything. Actually, there’s a book by John Gottman, he focuses on marriage and relationships and he actually talks about how from an evolutionary standpoint, that women—there is this inherent part of us that does actually want a man to provide. It seems such like a sexist view, right?

Jamie Berman: Yeah.

Molly Claire: But it’s kind of it’s there, because if you think like back in the day, right? The man would go kill the food and drag it back. And so it makes total sense I think, partly because of our conditioning, right? Like, societal conditioning, but also that as women, we would have some of that fear come up that we just kind of have to remind ourselves, like: it’s a new day!

Jamie Berman: 100%. And think of the years and years and years of evolution of women and how our brain has evolved. And it’s like, this is new. This is very new for women to be making money and to have businesses and to give ourselves from some grace, too.

Molly Claire: Yes, serious.

Jamie Berman: If you have those thoughts, and if that stuff’s coming up for you and that’s why I’m always recommending not to be in a rush, give yourself some grace.

Molly Claire: So, if you’re all relating to this, give yourself a break, right? Have some patience. I think we’re doing pretty good.

Jamie Berman: Yes.

Molly Claire: I would say

Jamie Berman: Yes.

Molly Claire: So, I know we’ve talked a little bit about this, but what would you say to my listeners who do want to shift some money beliefs a little bit?

Jamie Berman: I would definitely recommend—I just think it’s super courageous to even look. So, number one, just the willingness to look and start observing your thoughts, getting curious, but of course, like we mentioned, not to make it this huge thing that you have to rush through. I think just setting the intention of wanting to change things starts the whole process. So, I highly recommend it, though, and if you’re an entrepreneur, if you’re a coach as your listeners are 100%.

It is work that is worth doing and to focus on, because I think it’s kind of known to work, to research strategies and think about your business and how business coaching, but I see less people doing money coaching, and I think it’s also really effective.

Molly Claire: Oh, I mean, absolutely because if I have this belief that I can’t really ever have much money, even if I bring a bunch of money in my business, guess what I’m do, I’m going to waste it, I’m going to spend it, I’m going to lose it, right?

Jamie Berman: That’s it a 100%.

Molly Claire: It’s got to be there, I totally agree. I was just thinking also about something you said kind of going back to the very beginning of when we started, where you were talking about money as a tool. And you even have mentioned our values.

And, I do think it’s interesting to think about one of the things that I do with my clients often is values work, where were really finding out, like what do you personally value? Because sometimes we think, “Oh, some people have values or they don’t, or they have morals or they don’t, right? But it’s actually everyone’s going to have different things they value.

Jamie Berman: Yep

Molly Claire: And I always think it’s an interesting exercise. With my clients, I have them do—thinking about what they really want in their ideal life. And then we connect that to the values that they have, and it’s interesting how the values show up in what we want.

Jamie Berman: Yes.

Molly Claire: And so, I’m imagining if my listeners think about what they would want to spend money on? If you had more money, what would you do with that? I think it would be interesting to see how that really does relate back and can become an expression of who you are more.

Jamie Berman: Exactly, totally, I completely agree. And I’ve done it backwards where I think about my future self, the me that’s on my deathbed and I think of her, and like “What does she want to experience in this lifetime? What gifts can I start giving to her? And how is money going to help me with that?

Molly Claire: I think the work you’re doing is so important. I think the hardest thing for me as I’ve gotten into coaching, as especially my boys are a little bit older and I have one of my boys is in college and the other’s about to be, and I listen to them and all the time I just think, “Your money mindset is a disaster.”

If I could go back in time because I just remember when I raising my kids when they were little being very frugal—and not that frugality is a bad thing per se, but I had a different money mindset than I did not.

Jamie Berman: Totally.

Molly Claire: And, I think it’s important. It’s like, if you could go into all of the youth around the world, it would be so great. We could just help them clean up this money mindset.

Jamie Berman: Yes. I know. Because we definitely need it as a culture.

Molly Claire: Absolutely

Jamie Berman: Right.

Molly Claire: Absolutely. And then I’ve got my youngest daughter, who’s like, she’s ready to conquer the world.

Jamie Berman: I know.

Molly Claire: She’s going to be wealthy before she even graduates high school

Jamie Berman: Oh yeah, so fascinating. Oh my gosh, I love it.

Molly Claire: So, this is kind of a funny story about…I think I shared this on my social media once. But this is probably one of my favorite money stories with my daughter. So, have I told you this, you’re smiling?

Jamie Berman: No, I want to hear

Molly Claire: My daughter came up to me one day and she was like, “Hey mom, do you know what My friend, so and so’s mom does for a living?” And before I had a chance to say anything, she said, “Because they have this car and this car and a pool and a big house and they go on vacation.”

So, she was describing this huge lifestyle, and then she said, “Oh, I guess it might be her dad.” And so it was so funny to me and amazing that her first assumption was when she saw a family that from her view had a lot of luxury and things, she assumed it was the mom that was making the money.

Jamie Berman: Oh my gosh, I love it.

Molly Claire: How great is that? I was like this—and especially thinking back to when I first started my coaching business and saw—oh my gosh, I have this belief that I can’t make as much money because I’m a woman, and now to see my daughter seven, eight years later, believing that women are so capable of creating money, that was pretty cool.

Jamie Berman: Amazing. And that just goes to show you how quickly it can shift.

Molly Claire: Yes, and shift generations, right?

Jamie Berman: Yes, and exactly. I mean, it’s amazing. Because I mean, and that’s the thing is: I think sometimes when we identify those beliefs, we’re like, “Oh my gosh, this feels like this big overwhelming thing.” But look at eight years later, not only have you passed that down to her, but you’re actually living it and creating results from that belief.

Molly Claire: Absolutely. And I think that it’s important everyone listening here, whatever it is that you—that belief that you want to change or overcome or whatever it is, that seems so big, just think about the beliefs that you’ve already changed, the shifts you’ve already had, because I think that’s the best reminder that it’s possible. You just need to do it, right?

Jamie Berman: Yes, That’s it. And how fun is it that we can change our mind and our bank accounts change.

Molly Claire: I know, right?

Jamie Berman: Like what?

Molly Claire: And we have so many opportunities to bring up our thoughts about money, right?

Jamie Berman: Right.

Molly Claire: Look at your bank account, look at the charges, look at the bills. It’s all around us.

Jamie Berman: That’s great money

Molly Claire: Just plenty of opportunities

Molly Claire: I love it

Jamie Berman: So fun. Yes.

Molly Claire: So, of course, I help coaches who are building their business, giving them all this wisdom. What wisdom or advice would you have for my listeners who are coaches building their business?

Jamie Berman: So, when you’re building, my word of advice or what I wish I knew whenever I was starting my business or building my business is not to be in a rush, it’s happening. The only way it won’t happen is if you give up. And I just wish that I could slow myself down a little bit, because I think I had this belief that, “Oh my gosh, I have to get to my first 100K to prove I’m a good coach.”

And it was like this worthiness meter for me, right? And I realized once I got there that, oh my gosh, like, I get grinded, I rushed, I worked so hard for this, but I wasn’t really focusing on me being in alignment. And so what I wish, like, if I could go back in time and give my past self-advice, it would be, just slowed down, there’s no rush.

And to just remember that any other field that you’re in, where you’re going to make six figures or more, right? There are opportunities for learning, there’s opportunities for researching. If you want to become a doctor, it takes you eight years. So, to have this expectation on a timeframe in terms of coaching, sometimes that can get in the way for us and create more pressure versus the fun of having a business.

Molly Claire: Yes.

Jamie Berman: So, that’s what I would recommend is, absolutely work on your money beliefs, and they can really shift quickly and it can create results faster than you think, but don’t be in a rush.

Molly Claire: That’s such good advice. And I think, especially you’ve talked about alignment and this is really right up my alley of the work I do with my clients, because it’s like we have to sometimes slow down to go fast, we have to be in alignment, because if we’re out of alignment and then we’re just hustling, we’re going to work really hard to get there, but what have we really accomplished?

Jamie Berman: Exactly.

Molly Claire: And I think with being in alignment, there’s more of an openness and a flow where there will really be more abundance.

Jamie Berman: I totally agree, yep. And I think it unfolds even more naturally from that place, when you’re willing to do the internal work and sets a really solid foundation. Because if you don’t do the work that you’re talking about, that you know what you’re doing with your clients, you’re going to have to go back and do it eventually.

Molly Claire: That’s right. So, you can either rush and hustle and get burned out and then try to do an emergency repair situation.

Jamie Berman: Yes.

Molly Claire: Or you can slow down and do it as you go.

Jamie Berman: [inaudible 30:28]

Molly Claire: I’ve done a little of both.

Jamie Berman: Me too.

Molly Claire: Take it from us, we know.

Jamie Berman: I know

Molly Claire: So, well, this has been awesome, Jamie. So, definitely those of you listening, be watching emails, because I will be opening up my community and Jamie will be there. And where else can everyone find you, Jamie?

Jamie Berman: So, you can find me on all the social @jamieberman. My website’s jamieberman.com. I just got on TikTok, we’re playing with that. I’m like the money manifestation coach there, so I’m having a lot of fun with it, so…

Molly Claire: Awesome.

Jamie Berman: I love engaging. So, come say hi.

Molly Claire: If you want to have fun and feel light and happy and open, follow Jamie, she’s amazing.

Jamie Berman: Thank you, Molly. And I can’t wait to come be a part of your community.

Molly Claire: Awesome. Looking forward to it. Thank you so much, Jamie.

Outro: Thanks for listening to the Masterful Coach podcast. If you’re ready for complete support as you build your coaching business, check out Molly’s collaborative community, The Masterful Coach Collective. It’s a place where you’ll have access to the best experts in the biz, community support and guidance as you build your perfect business 90 days at a time, visit www.mollyclaire.com for details.