Molly Claire 01:01

Hello, coaches! I am so excited for this episode where I have Sondra Sperry, one of my master-certified coaches, and she is phenomenal when it comes to deep emotion work. And you're going to hear more about this in this episode. We're going to get to know her a little bit and Sondra and I are going to be talking about how to really meet your clients where they are in their emotions and how do we navigate through resistance? We all know what that's like when clients seem to bring that resistance, sometimes deep resistance. And so we're going to talk about this. How do we master the art of navigating deep resistance to create those client breakthroughs? So that's what we're talking about today. Welcome, Sondra, to the podcast. 

Sondra Sperry 01:50

Thank you, Molly. So excited to be here. 

Molly Claire 01:52

Yeah, this is so awesome. I get to see Sondra regularly in our group, which I love. So I want to just touch a little bit on, we had a call, I don't know, maybe last week or the week before in our Master Coach group where we were talking about your business model and you can add to this, but Sondra's business model is, well, she wouldn't say this, maybe, I don't know, that she is an amazing coach and she loves the work she does with her clients. She loves to work with them in the space of emotions and really help them. And she doesn't really care about marketing and she has clients that schedule with her and she coaches them. And that's the business model. 

Sondra Sperry 02:40

Exactly. That's it in a nutshell. I just want to coach. 

Molly Claire 02:44

Yeah, which is so awesome. And that's part of why I love this conversation around emotion work and how you work with your clients in that way. Because I think that the truth of the matter is that as coaches, as we are diving into and being with the work that we feel called to do, that it brings in the people who need the work that we are doing. Right?

Sondra Sperry 03:07

I agree. I feel like I haven't really searched for clients. They've just kind of shown up in my life and that has been actually amazing. 

Molly Claire 03:17

Yeah. And it's very real, it's very real. And I always, you know, I think back to when I was first coaching and you know, I had so many insecurities about my skills and I'd be coaching someone and I think, Oh, you know, this person would be a better coach for them or they need someone more skilled. And one of the things that one of my mentors said to me that really stuck was that if someone has come to you for coaching, you are supposed to be their coach, you are the right coach for that person. And that really stuck with me. And I've seen that to be true time and again, right? 

Sondra Sperry 03:53

No, I completely believe that I feel like we as coaches are privileged to be able to meet people where they're at. And just because you might be their coach at one time, they might move on to another coach because there's another need. And that is what's so beautiful about it is that we get to meet them exactly where they're at, and they meet us where we're at. And you're just kind of drawn to each other. 

Molly Claire 04:18

Yeah, yeah. So true. And I know, so Sondra, one thing that you love about the work you do is that deep emotion work. So you attract clients that really are needing plenty of support in the deep layers of their emotions. So talk more about that. Like even just, I know this is a very open question, but when I bring that up and thinking about these clients coming to you with, you know, these layers of emotions, what is it that you love about doing that work with your clients? 

Sondra Sperry 04:52

I think the thing that I love the most is just being able to accept them right where they're at and have them recognize that they're in a safe place. And like they're often very conflicted and really struggling with judgment of themselves is huge. Seems to be with most everybody. Thinking that there's a right way to do all of these things. And when you can like accept them right where they're at and just let them know that you don't have any opinion as to who they should be or that there's a certain way they should be showing up. When they start to really recognize that that's true for what you believe about them that they can be whoever they are at any given moment and that what they're experiencing is normal then that allows them to start letting go of some of that judgment for themselves and that allows them to start recognizing that deep work that needs to happen and being able to allow it to bubble up. 

Molly Claire 05:49

Yeah, yeah. I mean, and Sondra, even as you're talking, I can feel the spirit of softness, of non-judgmentalness, right? Of this just really safe space that you clearly create. And it's interesting, right? Because, of course, in Master Coach training, we learn about the nervous system, we work with Melanie on tapping, we're always talking about safety and how we use cognitive coaching language to create safety, how we're with the emotions to create safety, how we remove that judgment. And so, clearly, there are skills and concepts that you and I have both learned. And what I think is the most beautiful thing with you and every coach, right, that I've worked with in our community is that there are also gifts that you possess, right? Gifts that you have. And it's almost like when we add the skills, right? I'm using like air quotes, the skills of creating safety and understanding the nervous system and creating that nonjudgmental space. And then you bring into it in this case, Sondra, for you, just the softness and the compassion and some of those natural gifts that you have in working with people and their emotions. I mean, it just feels kind of like this magical, magical place for both days for your clients. 

Sondra Sperry 07:17

Thanks so much for saying that and honestly I have to give a lot of the credit to you because I didn't know how to do that like using just the thought work felt clunky and Like there was a lot of power in it, but also there was way too much judgment in it. So learning to let go of that judgment for me first has been huge like that has been like that's where I can allow it for them because I have had so much judgment for me that I can see it so easily that oh right right this is where they're judging themselves because they're feeling like they should be doing it different.

Molly Claire 07:54

Yes. And I think that the work in Master Coach training and that we do, this is how I see it. It's like the things that you bring and, you know, I think about many of the coaches that have, you know, such beautiful gifts, Margo, who she's going to be on the podcast soon, right? And, you know, I look at stuff, I look at these coaches and there are unique gifts in and all of you listening also, you have unique gifts. And what I love most about this high-level coaching work we're doing is that as we add the tools and add the skills, one of the most important things, I'm not going to say one of, the most important thing we do is help each of you as coaches to find you within that. Right? 

Sondra Sperry 08:43

Yes, that's huge because, I mean, I felt like I was a good coach before, but like finding me has made all the difference because then I can sit back and not feel like it's a problem. When my client is feeling like everything in the whole world has gone bad all of a sudden because it seems like everything's falling apart, I can sit back and be like, no, they're okay. They're going like, we're figuring this out and being able to feel that safety in my body can then allow me to hold that space for them to feel like, oh, maybe I'm going to be okay because she thinks I'm going to be okay. 

Molly Claire 09:18

Okay. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I want to speak to that a little bit. And then I want you to also share a little bit about how you came to coaching too in just a minute. But all of you, as you're listening, let's take a closer look at what Sondra was just saying. And one of the things that we do in Master Coach training and that I think is imperative for, well, every human being and especially coaches is to be able to build our own trust in ourself to be able to be with our emotions no matter what they are. And this is different than coping with our emotions, dealing with our emotions, right? Some of these words that we use. And by the way, no one taught us how to do this. We're just learning this now, right? But if we think about this, it's a good thing for each of you to consider how capable do you feel of being with yourself in your emotions? And I'm not just talking about like allowing a feeling because there's that, but are you able to actually be with yourself with care and compassion for yourself within your emotions? And I know this gets a little vague and ambiguous, but I want you to just think about it because typically we are all uncomfortable with our own emotions. We see our emotions as a problem to solve, as something to fix, as something to end. And even when we think about it as processing a feeling, we look at it as, okay, what do I need to do to move this feeling past, right? Like we treat them as problems. And so, as Sondra was speaking, notice that what she's saying is that, and you can add to this because I don't want to put words in your mouth, but the way it's striking me is this idea that as we all create safety within ourselves with our emotions, right? Sondra, as you have learned to be with your own emotions and removing that judgment, it creates like a care and a nurturing within you, right? Within ourselves, so that then as we experience that self connection and self nurturing, we can be okay when someone else's emotions don't seem to really be okay, right? When they're having heightened emotions. And then what you're saying, right? Which is very true is that when you can be grounded, right? And you're with your clients, you're essentially, you're co-regulating together, right? Because you're okay, then your client, even in the emotions they're feeling, can anchor themselves in the peace and that settled and grounded feeling, right? That you're bringing to the session. 

Sondra Sperry 12:14

Yes, I love the way that you shared that that very much matched because lots of times when people are like, for instance, sadness, when we're experiencing sadness and we cry, people are like, oh, they're having such a hard time. Like we put judgment on other people as they're feeling sadness. And isn't it just amazing that actually, there doesn't need to be any judgment based on it. Like they're just processing through an emotion. They're just, they're letting off steam and it's okay. And yes, they're sad. And I experienced this, this last week, we had Easter and lots and lots of family and it was wonderful. And I loved the whole time, but there's a sadness that goes with like, I've lost my husband and he passed away six years ago and there's a sadness when you're amongst so much family. And I just needed to process that sadness a little while, like process is the word. I don't know if it's even the right word to use, but I just needed to be sad. Like when I left, I had a two hour drive home afterwards. And so I just turned on some memorable music that we used to listen to. And I just let myself cry the whole way home. And when I talked to my mother later, you know, she says, oh, you cried on the way home. And then she's like sharing with my sisters. Oh, Sondra's having such a hard time. No, it was actually very healing. It was actually very grounding to be able to just be sad that my husband wasn't there. Like it was good. 

Molly Claire 13:36

Of course, we want to be sad when we're not with someone we love. 

Sondra Sperry 13:43

Right. Yes. And we're so often trying to shut that down because we don't want anyone to feel sad. We don't want anyone to feel because it's an uncomfortable emotion sometimes, but does it really have to be? Like, can we just allow the sadness? 

Molly Claire 13:58

Yeah, yeah. And this truly is, I mean, I love that this is such a super skill for you or, you know, a part of how your gifts come out in the work you do, because most of us have really been taught our whole lives that feelings are a problem. And we're scared of our feelings and other people's problems. So we want to solve them and shut them down. And what great healing, right? Like when your clients come to you, it creates such a powerful space of healing when we can just be together and allow those feelings to be there. 

Sondra Sperry 14:32

Yeah. 

Molly Claire 14:32

Yes. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. And most people don't give us that permission. What do we do when we start crying? Right? We say, I'm sorry. We apologize for it. 

Sondra Sperry 14:40

Yes, yes. I'm so sorry. I'm crying. I'm just a mess right now. You know, like all those things that we say, right? I know it's true and I think that it actually–especially to someone who's really grieving and sometimes I mean not always but sometimes just saying to them, you know what? It's okay. Crying is okay. You know, and I've even had some clients say, you know what? Maybe you just need to–like you don't need to live in crying forever but let's set a timer and allow yourself to cry for a certain amount of time and just be like this is the amount of time I'm gonna let myself just cry. I'm just gonna let myself and then after that I'll still carry the sadness with me if I feel like it. And lots of times they can't even cry for the whole time that they think they're gonna need to.

Molly Claire 15:26

I mean, crying activates the parasympathetic nervous system, which is a good thing, right? Sometimes, this is so funny because I sometimes will have a hard time crying when I'm by myself. And so I'll like call a friend, can you, can you cry with me? Because I can feel that I need to, it's just sometimes been a struggle for me, but yeah. Okay, so we're going to talk about how this fits in with resistance or sometimes honestly how this can really, it's almost like resistance can kind of dissipate, not that resistance is a problem either. But I want to talk about that, but tell us a little bit about how you first came to coaching. 

Sondra Sperry 16:07

Well, I found that I loved self-help like clear back in college. Like I was a really shy girl that just like I was uncomfortable. Like even in a grocery store, running into somebody that I knew I would dodge down the next aisle because I just, I wasn't sure what to say to them. I mean, they might think something about me, you know, heaven forbid. And so when I went to college, like I was attending a class. I don't even remember the class I was attending and that he just said, you know, here's all this self-help material, read a book. I chose the shortest one cause I just was like, I don't want to have to read some big long book about take, you know, I chose the shortest one. It was called try giving yourself away. And it actually changed my life. Like it just basically said, look people in the eye and smile at them. Like you'll make all the difference for people in their lives. And it just made all the difference for me. So from there, I just loved talking to people and helping people. Like, you know, when I'd learn a parenting skill or something, I would share it. And it would make a difference. And people were just like, Oh, you know, like you helped me so much. And so I loved that piece. Well, when my husband passed away six years ago, he passed away suddenly. It wasn't expected. And I kind of needed to redefine my life because it had all changed. Once he passed away, a piece of me passed away with him. And so then I wasn't capable of being exactly how I had been. Because that was us as a couple. And now I needed to figure out how to be me on my own. And so my daughter, just shortly before he had passed, had introduced me to coaching and anyway, so I actually hired a coach after my husband passed. Well, actually her coach, there was one time when she couldn't attend and she's like, mom, do you want my session? And so she gave it to me. And anyway, when I talked with her, she had gone to the life coach school, and so Brooke Castillo had announced that she was going to do a live one in Texas and it was 2022. And I was like, I want to go live. So I went to her live training in Texas and I was definitely hooked at that point. 

Molly Claire 18:11

Mmhmm. 

Sondra Sperry 18:12

But then I kind of like there were some pieces inside of me that weren't quite working out really well. Like the thought model was great, but I was kind of running over myself. It wasn't necessarily like I was trying to fix everything with the thought work and it wasn't taking care of my nervous system. It wasn't taking care of the emotions. It wasn't taking care of all the rest. And so that's when I happened to come across you. And that's made all the difference for me. Like I have learned that like I am whole and complete just the way I am, that I don't have to be, I don't have to change anything about me if I choose not to. And that has made all the difference. 

Molly Claire 18:49

Mm-hmm. Yeah, which goes back to this idea of the space you create for your clients, right? When it's like you come to me and you don't have to change anything. You don't have to be different. We don't have to move your emotions one way or another. Let's just be here with what is.

Sondra Sperry 19:11

So powerful. So powerful. Yes. 

Molly Claire 19:16

It is, right? And I want to talk about some of the practical application of this because, you know, everyone's on a different spectrum with all of this, right? And I think sometimes the emotion stuff and talking about just being with it and allowing it can feel a little ambiguous, like what does this even mean and what's the purpose of it? And so I'll say a few practical applications and then I'll, you know, I'd love to bring you into this. But if all of you are thinking about why be with emotions? Well, the fact of the matter is that when we are resisting our emotions, judging our emotions, we don't complete stress cycles, right? And so if we're always trying to shove down our emotions or solve for them, what this can mean is more emotional activation or stress more often. And this causes all kinds of problems, right? Reactivity and relationships. This causes overworking. This causes health problems, mental and emotional health problems, right? And so, I mean, this is just one example, right? That there are real implications and real benefits of this type of space for emotions, right? And yeah, I mean, tell me, as you're thinking about it, when we're thinking just, okay, practical application, if someone's here and they're listening and they're like, okay, being with emotions, no judgment, that's fine. But what's the point of all this in my life? What would you say, Sondra? 

Sondra Sperry 20:37

You know, I would say that it's less complicated than we make it out to be. I would say that we like think about it way too hard. The biggest question that I get most of the time is, but how do I do what you're talking about? And I think that the biggest answer there is like, I don't know, I imagined this was actually given to me by a coach that I had. And so I can't even take ownership of it. But she talked about, you know, like she called him Judd, he shows up with his, his judgment and he shows up with his baseball bat over his shoulder. And like, you know, he walks in and when you start judging yourself, like here comes Judd, he's going to sit next to you. You're just going to beat you every time you, you know, and like it's so true when we can have Judd put the baseball bat down and just sit with us and we can sit and even recognizing the judgment, even just allowing ourselves to just be like, oh, and this is where I feel judged. And what if I were to just set, what if we were just put the bat down, let's just put the bat down for just a short amount of time, like just breathing into that, like we talk about all of the tools that we use, like there's tapping, there's breathwork, there's, you know, all of these things. And each one of them, like we can imagine that Judd is just putting the bat down. Does that make sense? 

Molly Claire 22:03

Yeah, because I mean, I think that the thing that makes our emotions so much more painful and makes our life so much more difficult, right, when it comes to the space of emotions is believing they shouldn't be there, believing they should stop, judging ourself for having them, right? So to your point, when it's Easter, you're like, I'm feeling sad, I'm going to be with this, I'm going to attend to myself, right, allows you a healthy and whole emotional experience, which then allows you to have continued flow and forward motion in your life, which allows you to continue to stay open in your relationship with yourself and others, right? Whereas, right, if you were experiencing that and thinking, you know, I shouldn't still be feeling this, I don't want people to know, right? If we bring all these judgments, these criticisms, these rules that we're putting around it, well, that's when it stops that release that needs to happen. And again, right, creating activation, cutting us off from genuine connection with other people, it just, right? It's just such a big thing. 

Sondra Sperry 23:12

Yes and so like then at Easter then I wouldn't have been able to show up like in a genuine way necessarily with my family the same way because I'm judging that I'm still having emotion over my husband passing. 

Molly Claire 23:25

Right, right. And it's like resisting believing that the feeling should be there, right? Resisting, like, think about even the ways if we don't want to look weak or vulnerable or emotional, right? Then what are we doing? We're kind of, it's like we're a little tightened up, right? And we're resisting the true experience of connection. 

Sondra Sperry 23:46

Right. And sometimes it feels or seems a little counterintuitive to be able to just allow it, to name it, to say, this is what I feel and to accept it. Because we imagine or maybe we're even taught when we're younger, that we should just push it aside. We should push those emotions aside, you know, like boys are told, oh, boys don't cry. You know, all of these things that happen when we're younger, where whether it was actually taught or whether it was just intimated, we take that on and believe that we're not supposed to feel those things. But when we can actually embrace that, no, this is how I feel, it actually allows us to flow through and be genuinely more ourselves and more open with others. And it doesn't seem like that should be the case when you talk about it. 

Molly Claire 24:36

Right, right, that's right. 

Sondra Sperry 24:39

But when you start to live it, it's incredible how it feels. 

Molly Claire 24:43

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I love that. I feel like as we've talked about this perspective, it makes complete sense in terms of how we can really effectively be with our clients when they're feeling resistance, right? So I'd love for you to share your insights on this. But you know, when we think about often, one of the ways that I teach about resistance with my coaches is talking about resistance being an invitation, resistance being something we can lean into and understand to find out what's underneath it. And those of you listening, I want you to think about the difference between a client being resistant, as we would describe it, right? We're saying, oh, they're resisting, they're pushing back, they're not open. And us as the coach seeing that as a threat or a problem, like, oh, well, they're resistant, they're closed, right? And then we can kind of try to push more or fight against it or get them to stop being resistant. When actually, if a client comes and they have resistance, and we can make it okay that the resistance is there, and then getting curious, like, what's going on under here? Usually, what we find is that person has parts of them that are fearing, parts of them that are scared, parts of them that are hanging on. And when we can make it okay for the resistance to be there, just like what Sondra's been talking about in terms of making all of the emotions be okay, saying they're okay, that's when we can have that just really beautiful open space to do deep emotion work with our clients. What are your thoughts or what would you add or change to the idea of ways of working within or with or side by side with resistance that comes up? 

Sondra Sperry 26:45

I feel like when that resistance starts, sometimes on occasion, I'm definitely human. Sometimes I'm like, oh, they need to see this, right? 

Molly Claire 26:55

Yeah, yeah, right. We're like, yes, like, why are they being so defiant in this session? 

Sondra Sperry 26:59

Yeah, yeah, and and I think that's really normal, but I just take a step back and take a breath and think okay, so what's really going on here? So then that's my cue like whenever I get that little feeling that's my cue. Oh take a deep breath relax your abdomen relax the muscles that are in because there's no way when all of that is tight, I feel like then I'm resisting as well. And when I can release all of that in me and remember, okay, I'm safe I'm fine and there's nothing that's gone wrong here and it's okay if this client never sees it. It's okay if this client never sees it. When I can let go of that, then I can just be really curious and ask great questions and I don't know that great questions is the right way to phrase it but I can ask curious questions that allows them to just explore what's going on for them. Yeah, because lots of times I might think that I know what is causing it and I'm totally wrong totally wrong. Most of the time I'm totally wrong.

Molly Claire 28:01

I mean, honestly, that's one of my favorite things, you know, over time with coaching is you just realize we don't really know what's going on with other people and we don't really have to. It doesn't matter. And in fact, if we think we know what's going on and we're set on that, we really miss out. We miss out because we're not the authority on anyone. They are the authority on them. 

Sondra Sperry 28:21

Right. And then we find ourselves asking questions that aren't really safe.

Molly Claire 28:26

That's right. Or leading questions. Questions to show something. No. Yeah. Yeah. 

Sondra Sperry 28:33

Yeah, which is never helpful, especially with resistance. Because they can feel that and then they're more resistant. It's like, okay, they're up to something. They want a certain answer from me.

Molly Claire 28:42

That's right. That's right. I know. And you've heard me say this many times, right? In the group where I'll ask something, it's so funny, right? I'll ask a question. And then sometimes one of my coaches says, oh, I see what you're saying. I always say, no, no, no, I'm not, I'm not saying any, it's really a question. Like I really want to know. But I think sometimes we can come in with that assumption that someone is judging us or does have an opinion. And so I think as coaches, we need to go out of our way to make sure we're communicating. I don't have, I'm not going anywhere with this question. This is all discovery, right? 

Sondra Sperry 29:17

Yes and so that's why we bend over backwards to like ask like both questions the positive and the negative that's why we go out of our way to do all of that work to keep it as neutral as possible so they know there's no right or wrong answer. Like it is just whatever is within them is the right answer because it's what is real for that. 

Molly Claire 29:36

Yes, yes, which truly when you peel back the box of you know judgment or opinions or whatever It really is how we as human beings and how our clients get that clarity right connect with what we know to be true. What is what is within? So yeah, it's so powerful and I want to just I want to circle back to something Sondra just said those of you listening think back when we talked at the very beginning about the idea of Sondra being grounded being self-connected being okay with you and then being able to set the tone of the session where the client who's maybe feeling up and down or activated can anchor themselves in that energy and co-regulation. So now as we're talking about the resistance, what Sondra was bringing up is something many of you may relate to here you are in the session your client starts experiencing resistance, right? They're bringing some pushback and what we can sometimes do if we're not aware is be reactive to that energy right where we are mirroring them. And so essentially what we're doing is we're saying now my client's resistance is setting the tone. So I'm gonna come at it and try to change this resistance. And so I love what Sondra said around this and I want you to all think about this. What are the red flags for you inside of you that you are maybe going to that place of? Feeling resistance from the client and bringing resistance right to it from you where do you notice getting into that tight energy wanting to convince the client wanting to push back against the resistance? So number one, what are the indications for you and number two, how can you proactively, just like Sondra was saying that she does, think about how you can be aware of that in session and how can you go back to a place of setting the energetic tone of the session by dropping an agenda, dropping judgment, dropping an opinion and just being with the client in connection. Because I truly think I mean we could talk about resistance with clients and many angles and there is so much to be said in good conversations on it. And I think even with this one simple thing of noticing the instinct to push against resistance to make ourselves aware of when it happens and having a way for us to drop back into openness and curiosity and being grounded. And we do that over and over again, and what do we do then we create space for curiosity around? The resistance. Well, this has been awesome. I feel like I wish we could talk all day long but I know we're gonna wrap up here. 

Molly Claire 32:29

I'd love for you to share any final thoughts that you have, Sondra, and then of course tell people where they can find you. But you know coaches as you're listening it's very common for all of us to experience resistance with our clients and for us to experience it as well and I think that I know I can say I used to really judge myself for being resistant–I would think it was a character flaw, I would think I was being stubborn, whatever it was. And now I realize when I'm feeling resistance the best thing I can do is really care about whatever is going on underneath for me and for me this often looks like journaling like why am I experiencing resistance? What am I afraid of and what do I need in this moment and then I can be with myself right instead of just judging it? So those are some of my final thoughts on this Sondra words of wisdom for the audience

Sondra Sperry 33:22

I just absolutely love the coaching experience that I've had with Molly. And I just feel like that she is where I actually learned to hold that loving space was from the loving space that she has offered to me. And I just love helping anyone, but I know I'm not for everybody and that's okay too. And anyway, I can be found on coachwithsondra.com. And I'm just Sondra Sperry on both Facebook and Instagram. So I can be found either don't expect a lot from my Instagram or my Facebook, I don't engage in it much, but you can find me there. 

Molly Claire 33:56

don't expect a lot from the site or the profile, all the magic is found in the coaching sessions as it should be, right? As it should be. So that's awesome. And you can also, of course, find Sondra on the certified Master Coach directory on my website because she is awesome and she is there. And thank you so, so much for sharing your wisdom today. 

Sondra Sperry 34:17

Thank you so much, Molly. I appreciate this opportunity. 

Molly Claire 34:19

Thanks everyone, I'll talk with you next week. Have a good one.