Intro: Welcome to The Masterful Coach podcast, with Molly Claire, where coaches learn skill mastery, business mastery, and life mastery at a whole new level. If you’re serious about creating a meaningful coaching business that makes a difference, you’re in the right place. And now your host, master life and business coach, Molly Claire.

 

Molly Claire: Hey, coach. Today I'm bringing you the wisdom of TaVona Denise. She is a master coach. She's helped coaches with launching in their business, and she's also currently working with coaches to really do a great job with group programs. I loved this conversation with TaVona. She and I actually met back in 2015 at our first mastermind event after becoming coaches. And it's been really fun to be side by side in this journey, so I'm thrilled to bring her here to you.

 

And exciting news, she is one of our guests in the Masterful Coach Collective in the upcoming year. Those of you that have had your eyes on the Masterful Coach Collective, great news, enrollment is open right now for just one more week. And what this means is you can join with us now to have a fresh start in January. The community is a place where you as a coach have total support in your life, business and coaching skill mastery. We have experts every single week in the collective speaking to you about business strategy.

 

It could be Instagram, confidence on camera, writing a book, all kinds of things, also, helping you with that ideal life business balance and the strategies you need in your personal life, and of course, coaching skill mastery. We have master classes in there from myself as well as master coaches of all kinds. So it's a really supportive place where you can plan your goals each quarter, stay accountable and access experts with wisdom in all kinds of areas. So if you're interested, check out the show notes. Go to mollyclaire.com and click there for the Masterful Coach Collective community where you can find out more and get started with us in the new year.

 

All right, without further ado, the amazing, brilliant TaVona Denise.

 

All right, coaches. So I'm here with TaVona, and as we were just chatting, I am so excited to share her with you in this conversation because I think it's gonna hit on a lot of pain points for all of you as coaches, as you build your business. TaVona has expertise in being a business coach, being a launch coach, and now helping with group programs.

 

We're gonna talk more about that, but she's pretty well aware of some of the issues and challenges that come up in your business. Get ready. This is gonna be amazing. Hi TaVona. How are you?

 

TaVona Denise: Well, I am so excited to be here and talk about all the things, so thank you for having me.

 

Molly Claire: Me too. This is great. So, as I was preparing to come on to the interview with TaVona. I always probably bring this up whenever we see each other, because I remember really well the first time I met you was at my first Mastermind and your first mastermind, and it was 2015. And we were there sitting on the front row taking all the notes. I always sit on the front row because the truth is that if I sit too far back, I will not pay attention. I will be distracted by everything in front of me.

 

So the front row is a focus strategy for me, and there we were,

 

TaVona Denise: No, for me, I sit in the front row now because I need glasses.

 

Molly Claire: We all have our reason. Some people might think, "Oh, they're such achievers." And while we are, we just need to be able to focus better and we need glasses. So, there you have it. That's awesome.

 

So yeah, so TaVona, you and I sat by each other that first mastermind as coaches way back when and at the time you were still in physical therapy.

 

TaVona Denise: Full time.

 

Molly Claire: Wanting to quit your job. Is that crazy now thinking back?

 

TaVona Denise: Yes, because I wanted to do it so bad for so many years. I tell people I had one foot out when I got in because I started my first business actually before I had my physical therapy license. So I already had this vision of being able to make all the money and help all the people and get out of there. Well, really, at first it was just about making the money.

 

Molly Claire: Yeah.

 

TaVona Denise: It wasn't until I found coaching that it was more like, "Oh, I can make money and help people," because I got into physical therapy to help people. Yeah. But it wasn't making money. And then I got into business before at first to make money, but it wasn't helping people. So life coaching gave me both of those things.

 

And yeah, it's really interesting to think then that that's what I stood up during a mastermind to talk about is leaving physical therapy. Yes, it was very uncomfortable. Super uncomfortable, and it took me years later to do it. But here's the thing that I think would surprise many people for, I ended up being a physical therapist for 19 years before I left and went full-time in coaching. And I remember when the pandemic hit. And I was like, "Oh, okay, well I'm, I'm good. I'm making money. I think I can do this." Fast forward, because I was a contractor at the hospital, they said, "Oh, we can't work with y'all right now. Y'all cost too much, so we're trying to save money. Don't come back. We'll call you."

 

Yeah. When they called me to come back, I freaked out because I was like, "I don't want to come back." But they were like, "If you don't come back, you have to resign. You have to. You have to quit." And I didn't realize under all of this, I was making way more money than I had ever, but I was still using that as a security blanket. And it was part of my identity.

 

Molly Claire: And you making more money as a coach than ever?

 

TaVona Denise: Way more money as a coach.

 

Molly Claire: And you're afraid, oh my gosh. Isn't that fascinating?

 

TaVona Denise: Still afraid to leave. Yeah. Yeah, because I didn't realize mentally I was using that as a safety net. Yeah. Yeah. Physical therapy as a safety net. If coaching dries up. If it doesn't work out, I can still go back. And so when they said "You have to come back or quit", that's when all of my stuff came. But for 19 years I was like, "I can't wait to get outta here."

 

Molly Claire: That is fascinating. What a great story. Because yeah, we met at Mastermind and you stood up and said you wanted to leave physical therapy and do coaching full time. I think one of the things that I hope all of you are going to get out of this interview in our conversation is really getting a look behind the scenes at the journey of a coach, right? Both of us as we talk about it, and, and also kind of who quits, who doesn't, what success is about and, and what those things are along the way that come up.

 

So going back to Mastermind that we met was 2015. And now it's 2022. Here we are at the end of 2022. So let's talk about why you are still in the coaching field and why some aren't. Because you and I have been here and we've seen people come and go in the world of coaching and we've seen it evolve and change so much. And I think this is an important discussion because there are coaches right now wondering, am I gonna make it or not? Tell us, what are your thoughts?

 

TaVona Denise: You're probably gonna hate me if you're listening to this and you hear me say this, but this is really, this is my belief down to my core, is that it's a decision. It is a decision. It's a decision, like literally cutting off all options. And I just knew that I was gonna do it. I was going to be one of the ones, and when I decided I'm going to be a full-time coach, like no matter what, then I just had to roll with the punches and everything that happened and if we are doing our math correctly, it took me five years after I stood up and said I wanna leave physical therapy and be a full time coach. And a lot of stuff happened then and I had to keep getting knocked down and get back up and try something else and try something else and keep going after it. And really unlearn a lot of stuff and look at my, look at my own stuff.

 

Molly Claire: Yeah. I also wanna go circle back to that moment you brought up, you know, a few minutes ago about during Covid and that moment, but staying with this for now, I totally agree with you because I, and I think that, you know, this idea of, "Am I gonna make it or am I not? "really, does put it outside of our control, right?

 

As if it's like, we're either meant for it or not. We can either do it or we can't. And I really do think it's a decision, and I say this all the time, the only way you won't make it is if you quit, right? And it's that decision for you. You knew that was your decision. And I would say that's the same for me.

 

It's not like it was, it came easily or quickly, right? It's a mess. Like you look at someone who's, you know, air quotes here "succeeding in their business", and if you look back behind the scenes, it's all just this messy disaster of things that didn't work and times that you were discouraged and full of doubt and all of that. But I do have and have always had that commitment, I am going to make this happen because it matters.

 

TaVona Denise: Yeah. I mean, and I love that as you say that the only way not to win is to quit, cuz I very much believe the same thing. And also on the other side of it, when we think, "Is this for me? Is it not for me?" I also have a belief that the creator, God, whomever you believe in, source, universe, will never give you a vision for something without also giving you the means to. And so just the very fact that you are here and you are trying, and that you have this desire means that it's meant for you.

 

Because there are certain people in this world that they could care less about life coaching as a profession.

 

Molly Claire: Yes, it's true. I think we forget that because we talk with other people in this world all the time, but we forget we're a very small portion of the population that even thinks this way and wants these kind of things in our life and for business and all of it.

 

TaVona Denise: And then for me, that just means it's meant for you. So if you're listening to this and you're like, "Is it for me? Is it not for me?" Because you're here listening to this means it's for you.

 

Molly Claire: Yes. I love that. Yeah. Just a couple weeks ago, one of my clients in our group was talking about she had this kind of, this idea, this vision, like something she's really passionate about as a message for her. But because it didn't fit in like our marketing formula that we were working through, she found herself doubting it. And we kind of talked about this idea. There's a part of you that knows this is important, so the marketing, we figure all that out, right? Like this is something that's in you. And it just reminded me of what you just brought up.

 

Like her having that vision means like it's ossible to create that and to move that message forward.

 

TaVona Denise: I mean, I think that's part of what I think you and I do so well is there are formulas, but it's not formulaic in that whatever you want to do, we can figure out how to make it work. It again is just a decision, like, I want to do this thing, so let's just figure out how to go do this thing.

 

Yeah, and so in my work. In launches and helping people start and grow their groups. It's very much the same thing. You come with the desire and that's all you need. We don't need to know the entire step by step. We just need to know that this is what you desire to create and then let's just go figure it out.

 

Molly Claire: Yes. Which in some ways can feel kind of scary to people, but it's so much better that way because if you think you have it all figured out, you're wrong anyway, because things never go exactly that way.

 

TaVona Denise: Yeah. I mean that's just like before we were, when before we press record and you're asking like, what are you doing now?

 

And I'm like, if you looked at what I was doing back in 2014, 2015 to now, so different because I had to just go ahead and start. And as I went ahead and started and I tried things, then new knowledge came to my awareness. New tools, new skill sets through the clients. And I was telling you that as I went into the launch space it was first I wanted to help people launch their group programs, cuz I've been doing that since 2012.

 

I had a alternative fitness event group. So I've been doing that. So I'm like, "Oh, I know how to do that. I'll teach you how to do that." And then I realized some people were brilliant, excited, knew all the things, but they couldn't take action.

 

And I'm like, "Well, wait a minute. What's going on here? We've laid this out the most simple, fun way possible. So let me figure that out." And then that's when I created Launch Therapy, like launching with physical therapy and bringing that together. And then when I did that, I realized, part of the challenge is when we start these group programs, we get all excited and we figure out how to fill the program, but then something happens in the delivery of the program that kind of spooks us. And it creates something at times that I call the sophomore curse, where you have this successful like, meets all your expectations and more of the first launch and then the second one kind of tanks. You're like, "What happened?" And so I dove in trying to figure out what was happening and it usually is something in the delivery.

 

Molly Claire: Yeah. So, okay. So let's back up a little bit. So you were really focused on helping coaches with launching, with the launch piece of their business, dealing with all the internal stuff, right? The emotions, the thoughts, all of that. And the practical. And you doing that is really what allowed you to pinpoint an issue that a lot of coaches had, which is not really being prepared or yet able to deliver on the promise, the product of their group. And that's, that's kind of where you are now.

 

TaVona Denise: Yeah. Because, so one of the things that I am so grateful for going through master coach training was they put us in front. My goodness, when I opened up that Zoom one time , and I saw 1500 people , I immediately started sweating. But I loved being in situations like that because it stretched me. And so what we learned was different. That we learned how to teach concepts. We learned how to create concepts. We learned how to manage group dynamics. We learned how to coach in a group and make sure that everybody is taking something out of something and out of the coaching concept or out of the coaching in a moment, even though we are being specific to one person.

 

And these are not often skills that are taught in basic coach certification.

 

Molly Claire: Yeah, for sure.

 

TaVona Denise: Right. And so when I would see these things happen to people, or like when a client is upset or a client doesn't get results, like then that causes us to kind of doubt ourselves. And when we are not in confidence and belief and we're in self doubt, then it trickles over to the next time we try to fill the program.

 

And so, I'm always a person that's looking for, "Okay. What's happening? How do we make it better? How do we make it feel better? How do we make it moves better?" And that's literally what I did as a physical therapist.

 

Molly Claire: Yeah. Isn't it interesting how the things that we gravitate toward and that we are good at, we find that coming up all throughout our life in different ways? It's so fascinating. I love that. And as you were talking, I was thinking about how yes, the importance of coaches understanding how to actually, you know, deliver a group program and the skills to do it. And also, you know, something that I help my clients with is this idea that like, I think it's so important, and I know you feel the same way too, if you promise something to your clients you want to deliver on.

 

And I think sometimes it can be really encouraged, just like get more people in the door. I call it like sloppy scaling where it's just like, "Okay, let's just put 'em on the conveyor belt." Right? It's true.

 

TaVona Denise: I love that term so much, sloppy scaling.

 

Molly Claire: And so I really think that this idea of like, let's scale with integrity. And scaling with integrity to me is doing an audit of the promises and the experience. And do they match up? And how do we make sure that they match up? So when you told me that that's what you're doing is like in that space, and especially teaching those skills that you've learned, not only intellectually, right, but those skills that you have, I just think that's a huge gift to coaches and to their clients.

 

And I think the thing is, this is such a good example of something where, well, learning how to group coach, is that really the thing that's gonna move the needle for your business or make more money? Well, yes, because these things that we do that allow us to deliver a quality experience and program, that's what makes a lasting business. And exactly what you said, that's what allows us to be confident in selling it.

 

TaVona Denise: Yeah, it makes it easier to sell because it's all a cycle, right? So the marketing gets the people in the door to service is what makes your clients rave and continue with you and buy all of your things and by the next level, and tell their friends and give testimonials where you don't have to coerce them to do so. Like it's just the gift that keeps on giving.

 

And one of the things that I realized when I was doing Launch Therapy, where it was all about the trauma of the launch, right? "I didn't feel it, it didn't work like I wanted." All these things. I'm like, "Y'all, sometimes we have to realize that we have to play the long game." Every launch tees us up for the next launch. So if you're expecting this launch to just work perfectly and solve all the problems, you're sadly mistaken. We have to think about it long term and short term. And so one of the things that I learned probably the hard way was that sometimes now you have to be honest with yourself.

 

If you give it your all during a launch and you are really showing up and serving and selling and all this, and you sell to midnight, the day doors close and you get a certain number, I'm not gonna say you only get blank or you just get blank. Cuz that's really discounting the humans that said yes to what you're doing.

 

But you get a certain number and it's not what you thought you would or you expected. Just consider that that might be exactly how many you were supposed to have, and here's why. Sometimes we're just not ready for the number that we think we want. Like you were talking about, Molly. I love that so much sloppy scaling.

 

We wanna get all the people in. And remember, all of these pieces are feeding one another. And so that's why we wanna be mindful and intentional about the client experience, the selling experience for ourselves and the clients. And then the group experience for ourselves and a client. All of these things are working in tandem.

 

It's not becoming a martyr for our business. And it's not becoming a pushover for our clients. It's all of the things, everybody working in tandem and having a great experience. That's how we build businesses that are scalable and sustainable since we've been talking about those of us who have been here for a long time.

 

Molly Claire: Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, what you said, I totally agree that sometimes we're just not ready for what we want and we don't realize it. I can look back and think about the times that I thought, "Oh, you know, I wish I were here in my business, or I wish I were here". And I look back and I realize I wasn't ready in one way or another. And we're just not always aware of that. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Okay. So tell me a little bit about what is your favorite part about what you do in working with these coaches in this capacity?

 

TaVona Denise: My favorite part is, we get to have permission to do whatever we want, to create whatever we want. And I think one of my superpowers is being able to hold multiple concepts in my mind. And so for me, I'm always working on the strategy plus the energy or the intention behind the strategy.

 

So one of my favorite things is when somebody comes to me and they say, "I wanna do this, or I wanna have that". I'm like, well, of course we can do that. I mean, we go to the moon, we have the Tesla, we have the iPhone. If they could do all of that stuff, certainly we can create a group program that feels good to you and fits you. So I think that's really my favorite thing.

 

I love

 

Molly Claire: that because I mean, it's like, I see this all the time and I've experienced this for me as well. But I think probably similar to you, I've changed so much over time, the more I've done this work and you just realize that you can take many things that seem like they don't fit together and they're in opposition and actually they fit together just perfectly and specifically with businesses, right?

 

It's like there's not one way to run a successful. There are a lot of strategies. There are a lot of formulas, and there's a lot to be gained from all of those. And at the end of the day, you have to be in the space that is aligned for you. And like in building a business, I think it's so important for coaches to consider the kind of business that fits the life that they want too. And when you figure out what you want that to look like, then you just do it. You just make that happen.

 

TaVona Denise: And you said a very important part of what's the lifestyle that you want first? I think oftentimes we're building backwards. We just get out there and start running around and doing stuff, as opposed to saying, 3, 5, 10 years from now, what do I want my lifestyle to be like? What feels good to me? Because we start rushing because we wanna have it right now, but I'm like, in the grand scheme of things, one of the things I like to ask people is, without telling me your age, how long do you plan to be in business?

 

Most of the time it's 20, 30, 40 years. So we have so much time. So much time. And it's like, how do you think about the lifestyle that you want? Maybe it's not the lifestyle that you want to have when you are making a a million dollars or more. But at each point, just like as you've evolved, as I've evolved, how we wanna live changes.

 

I mean, I'm talking to you right now from Mexico. I live next to the beach. I can see it from the balcony. That wasn't, that wasn't the dream 19 years ago.

 

Molly Claire: Yeah. I think that, yeah, seeing what we want our life to be like now, and leaving it open to continue to revisit that over time. Because yeah, I think it's just like you said, you become coach and everyone's just running around. I love that. Running around doing the things like, "I just need to make this work, so I'm just gonna start going in, you know, fast motion, super speed to do all these things". And then it's like we missed the point of why we wanted to do this to begin with.

 

So we think, "Oh, I wanna have a business so that I can have time and freedom and flexibility and, you know, quality experiences with the people I love". And then we find ourselves too busy and too stressed out to have time freedom and flexibility and time with the people we love. So you've gotta remember the reason why you want the things and what it means in the big picture of things. For sure.

 

TaVona Denise: Yeah. To you and keep your blinders on and not worry about what everybody else is doing because I think one of the things that gets a lot of us, when we get in here, we keep hearing six figures. Six figures. Six figures, six figures, and it's amazing. Trust and believe I enjoy it. And sometimes that might not necessarily be the first goal. Sometimes maybe paralyzing for, we can go in and we can do the model and we can do mindset. We can do, all of the work around it, but sometimes, like, here's what I'm playing with here lately, Molly. What if we focused on the mission? What if we focused on the people that we desire to serve the number of people that we wanna serve?

 

Some people know they wanna have a boutique business. I coach someone who, she has very high prices because she only wants to work with five people a year. And some people like the person we know and love Corinne Crabtree is like, "Give me all the people. Thousands and thousands. All the money I'm doing at all."

 

But here's the thing though. When we serve people, the money is coming. And so one of the things that I've been playing with lately, if the money, like looking at a specific money goal is a little bit too, it's causing you to shut down for whatever reason, consider trying looking at the number of humans you wanna serve. And see do you get any movement from that? And if you don't get any movement from that, well we need to do the mindset coaching either way, but like, maybe just shift your focus and see what happens.

 

Molly Claire: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, as you were saying that it, it seems like also when back in the day, when you and I first got into coaching, it was like six figures. So I remember at that mastermind, that was when Brooke Castillo was leading it and she told us a story about almost quitting her business. And she had made like $300,000 that year.

 

TaVona Denise: Wait, wait, wait. Can you believe we knew her when she only made $300,000?

 

Molly Claire: I know! And I remember thinking, "Wow!" And she was like, "I'm gonna make a million dollars". And she was so excited about this enormous goal of making a million dollars in a year. So what's crazy to think about is we really do live in this little bubble, this little world where that number just keeps getting higher and higher. What the measure of success is. Because it used to be like six figures was like wild and crazy, and now it's, well, now it's seven figures. Well, who can hit eight? And it really doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter.

 

And I find coaches too who say to me, "I don't even care about making six figures. It doesn't matter at all to me." And it's not one or the other, mission and money. Because I agree, like, being mission centered, mission focused and having that lead the finances, the abundance, it's going to come, it's going to come. And for anyone listening who's like, I'm just not money motivated, I don't care about it. Sometimes we say that because we're afraid of it. For sure. So be on to yourself, if that's the case, and some of you, if you don't care about it, maybe that's okay. Maybe it really truly does not matter how much money someone makes because it really doesn't. We know this. Right?

 

TaVona Denise: Right. I mean, and at the end of the day, it's about what are we here for? What are we trying to achieve? And like, if we can stay rooted in that for ourselves, keep our eyes on our own paper, life will be good. If you're building this business so you have that time freedom, flexibility, and that looks like being able to take vacation, being able to take leave without pay at your job, then great. If it means being able to work for yourself, then great. Like you get to decide what success looks like to you.

 

Molly Claire: Yes. Yes. Based on really what you want in your life and business. Because I think, and I'm guessing you see this too, is that when coaches, when we get off track and we think our business should look like someone else's or be like someone else's, or we should build the life in business this person has, it just doesn't work.

 

TaVona Denise: It's hard and it's a miserable existence.

 

Molly Claire: It is. Yeah, it is. Okay. I feel like I could talk to you all day. This has been such a good conversation, really good takeaways, and I wanna, before I let you go, well,by the way, I will have TaVona's information in the show notes. So anything she's sharing you can find there.

 

Ut before that, any advice, guidance, wisdom that you would share with coaches listening, building their business?

 

TaVona Denise: Have more fun. Have more fun. Like, let's keep it simple and have more fun. And I have to share a little background as to why I say that. So I remember, you know, we talked about six figures being the, like that was the thing back in the day.

 

And I had my first six figure launch, so just launched the program as six figures. That's not what I made the whole year. And I just remember being exhausted, depressed, paranoid of running out of money. And it wasn't fun. I was just working so much and I got there to the, to the summit, to the top of the mountain and was like, "What the heck did I do all of that for? I still feel awful. Matter of fact, I feel worse cuz maybe I missed a party or something because I was working on the launch."

 

And so, that was about two years ago at this point, and I would say to anybody, just have more fun. I remember one of my earlier coaches telling me that, and I didn't really believe her, but maybe you'll believe me. Have more fun. And try to keep it as simple as possible. Like, one of my favorite questions is, how can I make this more simple? And what would make this more fun?

 

Molly Claire: Brilliant. I love it. Thank you so much for being here. Okay. Tell my audience where can they find you? What amazingness can they find in your website and your stuff?

 

TaVona Denise: Yeah, well you, the, the main place to hang out with me and see all the new things, cuz the website gets updated whenever I feel like it. But Instagram @TaVonadenise. And I'm hanging out there doing IG live, doing rants and reels and all of the things.

 

Just really, open to help. So you can find me in the dms. If you have a question, I'm very approachable in that way. And you can also take the scalability assessment, and then that will show you some where you can find the gaps and the foundation to scale so we're not doing the sloppy scaling and then you'll know where, how, where you need, what you need to do to fill the gaps.

 

Molly Claire: Yeah. Awesome. And that's something that they could get ?Could we have a link for that in the show notes for them?

 

TaVona Denise: Yeah, I can totally give you the link for that.

 

Molly Claire: Amazing. Perfect. Okay. And I had one more thing I was gonna say. What was it? I wanna make sure that masterful Coach Collective members, TaVona is coming to speak to you. She's gonna be talking about how to attract your ideal clients with an online event that's repeatable. Yes, it's gonna be so good. So good. So we're excited to have you there. Thanks again, TaVona, for being here, and we'll talk again soon.

 

TaVona Denise: Thank you.

 

Outro: Thanks for listening to The Masterful Coach Podcast. If you’re ready for complete support as you build your coaching business, check out Molly’s collaborative community, The Masterful Coach Collective, it’s a place where you’ll have access to the best experts in the biz, community support and guidance as you build your perfect business 90 days at a time. Visit www.mollyclaire.com for details.