Intro: Welcome to The Masterful Coach podcast with Molly Claire. If you're a coach who's ready to impact more lives, make more money and create a life you love, you're in exactly the right place. Get the support you deserve as a female entrepreneur. Master your coaching skills, grow your ideal business, and honor your priorities in your personal life. Are you in? Let's get started with your host, best selling author and master life and business coach, Molly Claire. Molly Claire: Hey, coach, get ready for an incredible interview. Rita Barry is the secret weapon behind some pretty big successful businesses. She is all about the data in Facebook marketing. She is all about traffic marketing. And the ironic thing is on this podcast, we're actually talking more about the value of relationship marketing, which is really primarily how Rita has built her business. While she is incredibly skilled at Facebook ads and helping people to really expand with lead generation, Rita herself is all about having the best connections with people in her business that allow her to continue to expand. I was referred to Rita by Mark Butler, who is so good at what he does, such a good person. And I've just found that the more people you invite into your life who are aligned with your values, your mission, and who are really trying to improve the world, the more people you will connect with that are also connected with them. So that's the topic of today's podcast. I am just back after quite a break over the holidays. I've missed being here with all of you. And get ready because we have got some great stuff ahead this year. I've got some great interviews, some great content, and I am more focused than ever on helping you to be able to lead your coaching business with phenomenal service to your clients. I am more interested than ever in helping you to create a business that supports your ideal life and aligns with your values and priorities. And finally, I am focused on helping you to have the simplicity in your business that you are craving so that the way you run your business aligns with who you are, and the easiest way for you to succeed. All right, coaches, let's get started. Okay, Rita, I am so excited to have you here. Welcome to the podcast. Rita Berry: Thanks, Molly. It's exciting to be here, on, being recorded on the podcast. Molly Claire: So fun. So of course, Rita, I found you several years ago when we were working in the coaching collective, looking to expand traffic, really dial in our Facebook ads. And of course you were just like, the very top, best of the best recommendation that we got. And fortunately, not only are you great at what you do, but you're just a good human, who builds a business with integrity. So, Rita Berry: I try, I try. That's the goal, right? Molly Claire: So I love that we're connected. And I know all of you listening are just going to love Rita and everything that she has to say. So first, just tell the people, who are you? What do you do? Why do you love it? Rita Berry: Uh, well, I'm Rita Berry and I have a customer acquisition agency. So we basically help coaches, consultants, people with group programs, courses, things of that nature, and kind of those leveraged digital assets, we just help them find customers. And so we really are kind of that front end piece where, for some businesses we take over 80 to 90 percent of finding their customers for them. So all of that awareness front end stuff. So that's what we do. So that's like funnels, social ads. So the Facebook ads that you mentioned, and then also funnels, copywriting, all of the things, and just the overall marketing strategy, I think a consulting that goes into that, cause that's so often Facebook ads don't just work by themselves. So there's a whole kind of ecosystem that you need to build around that. So we help customers or long term clients do all of that stuff. Molly Claire: Yeah, this is a little bit of a side note, but I think one worth mentioning is that the things you're talking about that you do for your clients is a huge mystery to most coaches and consultants. It's like this black hole of like never ending problems to be solved. And for you, it's so clear and easy. Rita Berry: Yeah. Yeah. It's the why I love what I do. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, Molly Claire: Which I just, I think is worth mentioning because all of you listening, many of you come to this work because you love coaching and then you have to figure out the marketing piece of it. And there's the space to figure things out. And there's also the space to hire and rely on experts, right? And this is why this is a little bit of a side note, but something I want to mention to those of you listening is that, I love a conversation that you and I had, Rita, at one point where you were saying, "Wow, I realized. I can do what is easy for me. Right. It can be easy. It doesn't have to be that hard. And I can be super successful financially with it because it's filling a gap for someone else." And I think sometimes we think that what we're doing has to be really hard, but it actually doesn't, when we lean into what we're great at. Rita Berry: It is. And it's, it's- it was one of the, I think the up level kind of business issues, thought problems, that I was having was that - and it was definitely not something that I noticed in the beginning, cause everything felt really hard. As anyone knows who is building a business, all of it is hard. So once you get to a place where some of it is feeling easy and then you're also being paid better than you've been paid before, the business is bigger than it's been before, that was kind of my next like growth problem was that it really, it felt very strange and really uncomfortable to be paid well to do something that literally I would do for free. And that was very easy for me, just as a person. And outside of just natural aptitudes, but then also 15 years of experience doing it, like, all of those things we disregard when we're charging people. You know, I didn't wake up today and have these skills, right? Like 15 years worth of time. If I were to add up all of that learning and experience is extraordinary, versus everyone's hours of coaching. It's really easy to just dismiss all of that stuff. And that was the work of last year was just, it's easier than it's ever been. And that also can be okay. And as long as I'm still learning and challenging myself, that's what's really important to me. But it can still be easy and that's okay. And that was a really hard thing to reconcile with Molly Claire: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I love that. And I bring it up because I feel like this last year I was just like on the cusp of realizing that, you know, we talked about my program, Create Your Killer program where I'm like, "It's so easy for me to do that with my clients." Like, I see it, it doesn't take much time or effort and it's so helpful for them. Like, it solves this mystery that can keep them so stuck. And it is a weird thing to experience something being so easy and simple for you and realizing that it's a ton of value to someone else. Rita Berry: Completely. And the time savings for them. To have a conversation with someone and you see it in like, five minutes. They could spend years trying to solve this problem that literally you can see in five minutes. It takes a while to appreciate that that is incredibly valuable. Because now as a business owner, I will pay for a person's five minutes of experience so I can save myself multiple years of trial and error. And I never would have done that before, but now I can also pay for that. And so it's also helping me see that other people can pay for what my five minutes is., It all comes around. It hasn't been easy for sure. Molly Claire: So, so those of you listening right now, two big things to take from this. One is that it is definitely worth it to outsource for something you are stuck on, if someone else can solve your problem really quickly and easily. And the other piece of this is you listening, you have something like this. Maybe you have an idea of what it is. Maybe you haven't discovered it yet. But how fun and how cool to think that a superpower that you have, a skill you have that is easy and fun for you, is highly valuable to someone else. Just planting that seed. And then like you said, Rita, there's the place of then kind of accepting that that could be possible and true Rita Berry: And that that's okay. And it was also going back and looking at it objectively, like quite literally, tens of thousands of dollars, probably hundreds of thousands, actually, at this point, worth of education, right? Like, just enriching my own brain. And then 15 years worth of experience doing this. Like, just the actual time and money invested in what has then become like the formation of my brain and how I think about things and the trends and patterns you can see. And then, of course, all of the documentation and things you record as you're doing all of that. That is incredibly valuable. And I was always dismissing that thinking of, "No, it's just my physical time right now." that's the value that I was placing. And it just took a long time to appreciate all of that. Yeah. Yeah, I Molly Claire: I think you're incredibly good at what you do. And I know for you, numbers and statistics, getting down to the nitty gritty of what is working and what isn't, and tracking it is a big part of what makes you great at what you do. Yeah. Rita Berry: I think so. It is. Well, it also, it's kind of how you mentioned before about the demystification and how magical marketing seems when you're first getting started. And I still remember thinking like, "How on earth? Where do all these people come from and how do you find them?" And like, you just put up a website back in like, 2008, I think when my first website went up, I'm like, "Do people just magically come here? Just show up?" All of these things. And so then, the love of numbers and analytics, and it's just part of my personality profile, for anyone who does not like that. If anyone's familiar with like Colby profiles and things, I'm like a high fact finder, all very analytical, things like that. So no one should ever beat themselves up for not being that person because that's just how I came out. I love digging into all of those pieces and really everyone's business, right? Big, small, just getting started, or like, incredibly eight figure plus, is just a combination of different marketing stages, and you can measure how all of them are doing in a really simple way and figure out which part isn't working and then we just attend to the part that isn't working, right? And so it actually can be that simple. And it's just really hard because when you're new you can't see trends because you don't have the data or the experience to see the trends. And then you also don't have the frameworks and models in your brain to be able to put that information into those framework and models and see where the deficits are. And so having, having someone else help you do that can be really helpful. Or also knowing that that's what you need to be looking for is like, what are the frameworks? How should this work? And then, how is mine working? And then looking at it objectively. So I'm just really good at seeing that. Molly Claire: Yeah. Yeah. And I hear you saying like, first of all, not everyone is going to be- like, I don't like using spreadsheets. I will use spreadsheets, but I just, it's not my space of happiness. Okay. Rita Berry: Exactly. Nor should it be. If the world was just filled with spreadsheet people, that would not be interesting, would it? Molly Claire: Yeah. So there's that. And also remembering that, for those of you listening that are just figuring this out, of course you have no idea what you're doing. Because you've never done it before. And if it were easy to have it figured out and know it, then everyone's business would be, you know, off the charts succeeding. And so it's got to have, give yourself a little bit of space and grace and time and all of it. Rita Berry: And every single week I encounter something where I'm like, "Huh. I wonder." Right? Like, because there's always a problem you come up against where you have to think of novel solutions to what the problems are. And no one's got it all figured out, right? You know, and even, and the people that do, I'm always very suspicious of when they're like, "We can figure out any marketing problem." Like, I will never stop trying to figure out a marketing problem. But, you know, there's a lot of- there's limitations on figuring out some problems. There's some time, there's money, there's a lot of different things that impact how long you can spend figuring something out. Nobody just comes out of like, to be a business owner and all of a sudden has all these answers. No, Molly Claire: And I think that's part of why you're so good at what you do because you do have that open curiosity, right? That sense of like, I don't know if I want to say humility or just like a sense of reality that, right? That like, there's always more to learn. There's always something that might challenge me. I'm going to keep working at it, but there's always, Rita Berry: That's the growth edge, right? And that's the thing that I didn't realize was, so, I like to win. Like, I'm very much wired that way, where I enjoy achievement and things of that nature. But what I realized more that was baked into the achievement was that I love solving a good challenge, right? I love figuring it out. I love sitting with something that other people couldn't be bothered with., There's just something about it. I'm like, I've always loved the underdog. I've always loved those sorts of things. So, you know, something that's cast aside, I'm like, let me figure this out. And I just get a lot of like personal motivation and all of the things, right? Those are all where the good vibes come from is just figuring stuff out. And the pursuit of mastery, not necessarily the mastery. So I think that's just fortunate that that's the way that my brain came out, and that also understanding that that's how it worked. 'cause that obvious- I didn't get that right away, right? And so if something's boring, that's not usually gonna hold my attention. So this is a very challenging, changing type of industry. And it's kind of perfect for what I like to do. Molly Claire: Yeah, I love it. Okay, so ironically, maybe what you really do is help people, with paid ads, right? Paid marketing and that piece of building a business. But what we're talking about today is more relationship building and marketing, right? Relationship marketing and the connections that we make in our business. And we wanted to talk about this because well, first of all, back up a little bit and say, this is relationships and connections. I kind of refer to it sometimes as a strategic referral business. So sometimes we think of referral business as, "Oh, just like my neighbors just come to me and refer," And yet, I think by proactively connecting with people - and not just any people - but proactively connecting with people who are in alignment with your values, who align with your mission in your business, like connecting with other good people who are also wanting to expand and grow the work you do, I think is potentially the most, I can say for me, it's been the most beneficial and I think it's a very sustainable way of continuing to expand your business. And that's really what we're talking about today, right, is relationship marketing in relation to your business. Rita Berry: And nobody ever talks about it. Because everyone talks about, because essentially like what I do is traffic marketing, right? So once everyone's got the business set up. We come in and like, we fill it, right? Like someone's built the systems and we're putting people into it. And that's not how we grow the agency at all. It's exactly the opposite. And most folks, like, there's very few conversations that people have about traffic marketing versus relationship marketing. People just say marketing. And so relationship marketing just gets like shuffled under the rug. Nobody talks about it. And when you realize it's actually a thing that you can do on purpose.And also, like, not in a sleazy, network-y kind of way, that you can actually just show up like a good human that you are, hang out with other cool people that you like, and actually really amazing things happen, you just have to be a little bit purposeful about it. That literally, like, changed my business. Like, quite literally, that is like the only reason that there is a business, honestly, that's worth talking about. Molly Claire: Yeah. Yeah. And I think because the way I found out about you, Rita, was I was working with Mark Butler. And we were going over the numbers and the stuff and he's like, "I think you're ready for Rita". I didn't see a Facebook ad for Rita Berry, right? I was referred to you by someone else who I had a connection with because of someone else. And I think it's worth reiterating and pointing out that I think sometimes we can- even putting the word relationship and marketing together can seem like, "Ooh, that's really bad because is it a relationship using people?" But it's really not. Like, I think about everyone listening right now. I guarantee that you can think of, you know, 10 different people right off the bat who might actually love to know about what you do, because they have people that could also benefit from it. And the opposite is also true. And so I think that, well, and I'll back up a little bit and say, when I help coaches with creating their killer program, the next step for them is, "Okay, now we're going to do the 10 K accelerator method. Let's start to expand your business." And it is all about strategically connecting with the right people. Not because we're using people, but because we all work together to create great services for people that need the services. Rita Berry: Exactly. Right? And I'd only ever heard or, you know, pre-business Rita did not know anything about networking outside of the sleazy idea you have of networking of, you know, everyone goes into a room with their name tags and all of that kind of stuff and everyone just pitching each other. That's what I thought it was. You know, it was very accidental, right? Mark Butler, one of the most lovely humans that I've encountered on this planet, and running into people like that. Because Mark was one of those people in my network, where it's like, I met him, I had never met him before. I didn't purposely be like, "Mark Butler, I'm going to go meet him, and we're going to be friends, and we're going to do all this." No, it was like, I show up in a place where other cool people that have similar values to me that are in the online business space, because I like talking about business. It's not like going to hunt for people. You're like, "I just like talking about my business." And a lot of people in my 3D real life close to me are not online business owners. So there's like, it's nice to have that outlet for discussion. And I would just pick really small, groups of people because I don't like huge conferences. That is very overwhelming for me. I'll just stay in my hotel room all day. And so I was like, "How do I just get out and meet more people that are cool and that I like and that I think I might like?" And then nothing bad can happen with that. You just meet other cool people that enrich your life. And that was really the beginning of it. And then you start to get connected with people. And some of them aren't always like a client fit, but that's not really what you're looking for. You're really just looking to show up and be of service and meet cool people. And then good things happen. Molly Claire: That's right. That's right. And I know what I found is typically, when I connect with someone like Mark, he's always going to refer people like you. When I'm working with someone like you, you're, I mean, and I'm trying to think off the top of my head. I might get some of them wrong, but I know there have been many professionals you've connected me with, right? And they're always high quality. They're in line with exactly what I want. I want all of you listening to think about really expanding your idea of what building a high quality, sustainable business can look like for you. Because certainly there are things that we do to ensure that our business is sustainable, right? We want to have a list. We want to have some foundational things in place to allow it to grow. And truly the relationships and connections and the way that we serve and are of service is a huge part of making a business sustainable. Rita Berry: And some of the relationship stuff happens. I would say most of the relationship stuff happens faster, right? Because a lot of those foundational pieces, like, when we're making sure that we have a list and we're actually nurturing that list. And all of those other marketing pieces are- I mean, there will obviously be some people that might- the folks that are really ready that might jump on, but like the relationship pieces, because just as we said, if you're having a conversation with a person and you're like, "I'm looking for this." you're actually looking for that, right? That's like someone saying, I'm looking for a life coach. And someone's like, "I know one," right? They're actively in market hunting for that. Those are the easiest discovery calls that you have, because the people just want to make sure they jive with you. And then you're good to go. And like you mentioned, if you're in those networks with people, chances are everybody has a very similar work ethic, a very similar level of product quality that they find acceptable, right? That's because I'm not going to refer somebody, to somebody who has really poor clients, even if the product is amazing, if they have really- like, I follow up, right? Because they're like, "Is there anything that you, when you were working with this person, that I should know?" And things like that. And everybody does that, if they care about their network, they're making sure that they're only referring people that are really doing a lovely job and taking care of their people. Because I want to send you to somebody who doesn't treat you nicely and doesn't do a good job for you. Like, that's not cool. And it just happens so much faster. Like all of a sudden you talk to someone and then a week later you have a new client, right? Molly Claire: Yes. Yes. It's so amazing. So I want to ask you, cause I don't know, I don't know how you would describe yourself, but I know that you said you're not really like into a big room full of people. I don't think you want to be like the biggest, loudest person on the stage. Rita Berry: Never. Molly Claire: Right? So I don't know if you, and I wouldn't say you're shy though, but I don't know, shy, introverted, prefer a smaller group. How would you describe yourself? Rita Berry: I think I might be the ambivert person. Because I used to strongly identify as being introverted. A lot of it was just, I was really worried what other people would say. So a lot of it was like, especially as a younger person, like a teenager, like all the teenagers, I feel for all of you, like all of the teenager, young 20 people, right? When you're in that really fragile state of being so aware of everybody's thoughts and opinions about you, I carried that for a really long time. So, so a lot of it was probably just self protection, right? And like just doing that. And so then I strongly identified as an introvert, I think, because of that, without digging too much into it. And then I found life coaching when I was in my 30s and things. So like, it has greatly transformed my own brain and my own life and given me a lot of awareness of that is that I truly love people. I love relationships. I have a small agency that works with people really deeply, rather than those are some agencies that have a hundred clients. And that's not my model. I like to know the business. I like to know the owner. Like, we're in it intrusively. So we're in it. And I do love that. And I love talking with people. It's getting to know people and seeing what they're all about. And, but I just, I also need breaks. So I like time by myself to recharge and things of that nature. So it was interesting seeing what that flow was, because I thought just because I do get more energy from being by myself. But then also I've had some amazing conversations with people. Like lots of conversations where I was like that the conversation gave me a lot of energy. So probably firmly in the middle. But I'm definitely not someone who requires the attention of others to do my work. Truly like, the mastery of it is its own reward for me doing well. And seeing that we solved that problem is just so gratifying that, you know, it's nice when people say nice things, but truly like, if I'm alone in a room and I solve something really complex and we figured it out I'm just as happy, right? So there is, there's a lot of places that I get kind of that affirmation. But yeah, I'm not going to be the loudest one in the room because some people enjoy that more than I do. I just, it's just not my thing. Molly Claire: Well, and that's why I wanted to bring it up because I know for people listening that might think, "Oh, well, I'm more quiet or more introverted". Someone that's going to be focused on relationship marketing and building relationships and connections they have to be super outgoing and super loud. And like almost- we have those ideas sometimes. But you know, it's like really what you're saying is. I care about people. I'm interested in connecting with people. I want to know people. And that's really what it comes down to, right, is. Rita Berry: Yeah, like the amount of calls that I've had with people that I was able to help them just through a conversation, and they never became clients because they shouldn't become clients, because that was not a good fit for a variety of reasons. And I don't chalk that up as like a waste of time. That's just like another wonderful human down the road that I was able to give some assistance to. And sometimes that's just knowing what not to do. Right? Ads in general can be a real knee jerk thing of like, "Okay, I have to go do this thing". So a lot of that happens where people just assume. And I'm like, "You are not ready and these are the 10 reasons why. And you need to go do these other things first. Here's potentially some other service providers that could help you with that if you're stuck." That's, to me, the same difference. Like whether someone's a client or not. That's fine. And so just helping people with the unique, like, little experience bubble I have in the world is really cool. And sometimes that can be really loud, and out there, depending on the situation, but it won't be, like, that would still be more in a quiet one on one conversation. I can be really loud and out there. I'm not going to be the most gregarious person in the room for sure. Molly Claire: Just taking a minute to speak to what you just brought up, in terms of when someone may be - I know we're shifting gears just a little bit into the Facebook marketing piece, and I want to circle back to the relationship marketing - but what you just mentioned about being ready versus not ready for someone to hire someone like you for Facebook ads, what are the indications that someone is or is not ready for that piece? Rita Berry: For that particular piece. Well, the biggest piece is having all the lower funnel, if we're going to use a technical word, but having the product, having sold it to people and having good results in the people that you sell it to. I used to say around 10, at least, that you've not just sold 10, but that you've actually sold 10. And those 10 people that you have sold have had the outcomes that you want. So you kind of have some proof of the stuff. And sometimes that takes 50 sales to get those 10 people, right? Like they actually have a thing. So some people call it product market fit. I just don't like that phrasing because nobody agrees with that means. Like, what actually is that and you can Google it and there's a lot of opinions about it. But if you get 10 people that have great success with your product and have exchanged money for with you for that thing that you provide to me, that's a pretty good indication, right? And having things like an email list. Having enough profit that it actually makes sense to do that, because to use Facebook ads kind of as a big traffic source and as an acquisition source, that whole system has to be in place, right? There has to be like a quote unquote funnel where you have architected the way people move and through your business, right? They come in, how do you gain awareness? How do you activate them? How do you get them on your list? How do you nurture them? How do you make sales? You have to know what that looks like, right? Make a picture. I do flowcharts all the time of this,, because this is also how we identify what stages need attention. But few people actually take the time to draw that stuff out. And just popping extra traffic into a system that you're not measuring, or that you don't even know actually what it is, right? Or there's missing pieces, which often happens too. It's just basically, you're just like dumping a whole bunch of water - and in this case, it's expensive water - into a leaky bucket, and it's going everywhere. And so you really just need to define what that bucket, funnel, customer journey, whatever lovely word you want to, how do people move through your business that way? And it's not as complicated, right? It should be simple. Because the more simple it is, the easier it is to measure and the easier it is to optimize. Most people just don't take the time to actually, like, draw a picture. How do people move through your business and actually get to the point of sale? Because without that, when I'm meeting with somebody for a discovery call, if I'm asking them, like, "Describe this to me. Describe what your overall marketing plan looks like to get to this core product." And they're not sure. That is always a red flag because if you're not sure, we can't measure it. Because it might not exist. And so then we are pouring this very expensive water - it's like champagne - through the bucket. And you just don't want to do that. So, people really need to have an idea of what that system looks like, know that it works to a certain extent. Like with having some of that track record of sales that they have something that people want to buy. They're good at delivering it. And because at that point, right, then making it bigger makes sense. But until you actually have that part solved a,nd that part's not fun, there's nothing sexy about that part. But once that part's done, Molly Claire: It takes some time and commitment, right? Rita Berry: And it feels like the ads and the traffic just solve that because they're far more accessible than they ever were. Before paid advertising and awareness used to be reserved for radio, and TV, and billboards. It was very inaccessible to small businesses. And now we have all of these really low cost - low cost relatively - systems we can put in place. But without that other stuff, it's just, no. Molly Claire: And that's what, you know, as you're talking and I'm thinking about all of you, coaches, consultants, small business owners, listening, if building a business, sometimes feels overwhelming or impossible, well, this is why. There's a lot of things you're doing right now. And much of it is because you're like, in a way you're a pioneer in whatever you are specifically doing, right? Rita Berry: And so you're making something new that hasn't existed before Molly Claire: Yeah, it's hard, that's, it will just validate. Rita Berry: Validate how hard it is. Because it's true, like, and even just in having that initial conversation is like, do you have it documented in your business, how people find you right now, and how they become a customer? Like, does that exist in a way that you could show it to me right now on a Zoom? 99 percent of people from $500,000 in revenue to $100 million in revenue, don't have that, right? And they're like, "Oh, well, people get on the list and they do the things." let alone measuring it and try to make it each stage better, right? Like, you can't do any of that until you have the actual thing in front of you. And so very few people do this. Molly Claire: And I think a lot of people, tell me if you have, another view on this, or anything to add to this, but I think a lot of the reasons why we don't is we're just afraid to look at the information, or we think it's not good enough, right? It's like, I come across this all the time when I'm working with coaches who are newer and they're getting that first, you know, $10,000, $50,000, whatever. And they minimize the ways people are coming to their business. Because they think, "Well, it was just because, you know..." Rita Berry: it was just because of this thing or Molly Claire: “I happened to be speaking at this.” I'm like, no, you didn't happen to be there. Like, it's not like. Rita Berry: I've never happened to speak anywhere. That has always been very on purpose Molly Claire: So yeah. And I don't know what your view on this is, but for me, most of my coaches, I mean, all of them I would say, with a rare exception, unless they have an extraordinary amount of experience someplace where they already have a list or a business going, that much of the work initially is organic marketing, is organic traffic, is kind of moving your business forward, leading with service and making connections. Rita Berry: And you can measure the relationships, right? Because you can. And I think maybe a good analogy for the coaching world is that the way, and I look at a marketing very much the same way, is that before we can do anything with someone's thoughts, they have to gain awareness of their thoughts. It's the exact same thing with the marketing. Before you can fix your marketing or do anything with it, you have to have awareness of what it is. And if you're chunking it down, you're like, "People find me," because if they can't find me, I can't sell things. I do some stuff in the middle so that they like and trust me more. And then we have a sales conversation. Those are really the three kind of macro chunks. Right. You can actually write them all down. What happens in all those stages? What do you do? And then when you know what you do, you can then start applying those numbers to it, like "How many people did this stage? How many people did this stage?" And the simpler, the better. And you can map, "I met this many people." And you can actually set that as a target and a goal. You're like, "I'm going to meet more people and I'm going to do it this way." And then you can test different strategies to meet people and see how they worked and do the ones that work better. There's actually ways to do that in both relationship and traffic marketing. So just because it's all organic in the beginning, and even later stages like me, like, I'm still going to be highly organic and relationship all the way through. You can measure it, and we do. Because sometimes I'll just want to hibernate and do the work and I have to be reminded that it's really important to, you know, go out and meet people and do things and keeping the numbers front and center makes it really hard to ignore if you're not doing the work. Molly Claire: So yeah, I think, you know, a couple of takeaways just from that is bring the awareness. Don't be afraid of the awareness, right? Look at how people are finding you, or not finding you. And also I think that even if everyone listening today took the time to think about everyone they have worked with, whether it's paid clients, free clients, how did that begin? What was the action that proceeded each step of the way with that? How did it happen? And write it down. And I think the key to allowing for us to be more willing to do that, and allowing all of you to be more willing to do that for yourself. It's just, let's just forget about this idea that it should be criticized or judged or minimized, right? Like, what is it that you have done or not done to create what you have? And I just, I think there's a ton of value in what you'll find, for sure. Rita Berry: It really is. And that was like, essentially, it wasn't even that I tried to relationship market, going like, "I'm going to do this thing". It was literally because of that. It's because I looked at the client group I had, which was very small at the time, and well, where did these people come from? I'm like, oh, every single one of them came from a person that I serendipitously met for whatever thing. And they're like, "Well, let's do more of that". And then all of a sudden you just get really - like, and then obviously the whole process matures over time - but that's literally where it started from, was like, where do these people come from and then not diminishing humans, right? Especially in coaching and what I do in service, for any kind of service provider. And I would argue that even people in group programs and courses are still service providers and there's a lot that can be learned from all of us that have to interact with people all the time. And that, you know, doing that stuff, it really is quite remarkable. The business that you can build when you just kind of do it, pay attention and not diminish or judge, just bring that uncritical awareness. Hold space for it. Yeah. As a coach might say, just observe it and go, "Oh, like this is actually what's working. All right. It's not less than because I didn't pay for it. It's not less than. It works just as well." Molly Claire: Because I would say that for sure, I feel my business is a relationship business. I mean, clients that work with me, that come to me, there's already that relationship established there. And many times it's because of ways that I've been in front of them in various ways, from having connections. And I think back on when my sister and I had the Coaching Collective together. We had that business together for three years. And both of us are very much, we are relationship people. We like connecting with people. We like having those natural interactions and we started that business. And in the first year, you know, we brought in a quarter of a million dollars working very part time and we did not do one ad. But it was because we had been engaged in the work of coaching, engaged in the work of helping people and having those relationships. So it's a big deal. It's a Rita Berry: It is, and it's just not a sexy topic. And so it really, it's unfortunate because I didn't see anything about it. It was something that like, wasn't on my radar, seeing other marketing people talk about it when I was getting started. And it truly is transformational. Because regardless of what kind of business you have, whether you end up being more heavy into the traffic side, to the relationship side, the relationships are so important for so many other reasons in our life, in our mental health and all of those things, but just in growing the business. Like to think of my- There's so many wonderful people that I've got to meet over the years that I never would have met had I just been, "I'm gonna run an ad. I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do all this at scale." I probably wouldn't have this business, like, truly. It probably wouldn't have become what it has become because it also helped me see what my strengths were around having long-term relationships with people, which I'm sure most people just anecdotally can think of. Most agencies aren't known for having clients for seven to 10 years, which we do. And some people don't want that. Some people find that absolutely abhorrent. They're like, "Oh my gosh. I mean, you have to like, maintain communication and do a good job for that long." I'm like, "Yeah, I hope to. Like, that's the goal." And, and without the relationship piece, I wouldn't have also had the awareness to realize that that's actually a real strength for us because it's so uncommon, like, almost virtually unheard of and that's okay. And then that also raised that up to my own awareness of like, you know what, we can actually talk about that. Because that's actually a really big differentiator for our business. Which is just another thing that being aware of that relationship marketing brought to my attention, is that I'm actually really good at maintaining levels of quality over time, and being a human being, and seeing other people. We've gone through deaths, births, divorces, all of that stuff with clients, and we just hold a lot of humanity for all of that. And of course, we work with women. So that has a different flavor to where we hold space for all of those kinds of occurrences within the business. But yeah, it's just all of that lovely awareness. You find out all of these wonderful things about yourself and your business and yeah, I love it. Molly Claire: So good. Okay. In just a minute, I'm going to have you tell everyone where they can find you. And I would love to have you share just like one more thing with my audience, whatever it is you want. It could be, you know, helping them to decide between, traffic marketing versus relationship marketing, or even just- anything you would add for someone who maybe feels hesitant about building their network or relationship. So I'm going to let you, you pick what you'd like to share. But as we finish up, I hope that all of you are really starting to see the value in the relationships you've already built as you've been building your business, and the ways that you can continue to reach out to other people and contribute what you have to contribute, and also ask for ways in which that others can support your business. Because I think that back and forth is so super important. And I think all of it can be done with a lot of integrity and genuineness for sure. Rita Berry: Agreed. Molly Claire: Yeah. All right. What do you have for us? Rita? Rita Berry: I would say like the biggest lesson I've learned personally, because I'm always not necessarily one on advice all the time, but more like, "This is what I've learned through my own personal experience". Is the, keeping it as simple as is humanly possible. So the flip side of that relationship part is that I had been doing a lot of the social media and the updating and a lot of like those things that everyone told you that you should do. And the bandwidth of me at that time in that season of life where I had a yong human just exited my body and so there was a lot of ery little time in a day. And so I literally stripped everything away. Like, you can enjoy my social media that exists, but doesn't really exist. I just focused on that. It was literally like, how can I meet people in whatever capacity I can do it? If it's like zoom coffees, if it's showing up to, you know, masterminds, or all of these sorts of things, and that was all that I did. And so it's not- I wouldn't say that relationship marketing has to be an 'and'. It can be an 'and'. But obviously our lives come in seasons. And I think it's always so important to acknowledge and give ourselves grace wherever we are in that particular cycle and that you really can just strip away all the things that's not working until you get traction. Because there will always be time to add in the social media later or to add in the 'xyz' later. But doing the most important things simply and as effectively as possible helps you get the traction, which then, once you have that motivation, everyone knows when you hit that- you feel so motivated to do stuff. Everything's so much easier, but in the hard times, just, you know, keeping the lights on of doing those simple things. Even the biggest businesses we work with, have a natural tendency to try to overcomplicate what they're doing, and the wheels come off. So even the big ones have to keep it simple. And it's just, I think our natural tendency is humans to overcomplicate. Molly Claire: Never overcomplicate anything ever. I know you know that. You've worked with me. Yes. Rita Berry: Always simple. Always straight forward. Where I'm just like, always, must keep it simple.. And it really is, just having seen the inside of so many coaching businesses over the last number of years, that keeping it simple and really focusing on what works and paying attention is everything and just building it as you go, right? Yeah. So, so important. Molly Claire: Yes. Amen to that. Well, this is amazing. Thank you so much. Tell the people where they can find you. They want to connect with you. Rita Berry: You can literally find me in one place, which is funny. You can find me at my website, it's RitaBarry.com. And the Barry is B A R R Y. And yeah, I'm on the socials. I do respond to direct messages and things of that nature, but I don't post at all, because I just don't. It's just not something I do as part of my business and I'm also just quite private, in general, of my personal life and things. So, yeah. That's really, that's where it's at. I love having coffee and zoom chats with people. And that's a lot of where my time gets spent in addition to client work. That's where I am. Molly Claire: It's all in the show notes here. So you can click there and find her. Thank you so much, Rita, for your time. It's been amazing. Rita Berry: My pleasure. You too. Molly Claire: All right. We'll talk soon.

Outro: Thanks for listening to the masterful coach podcast. Are you ready to build your amazing business with Molly as your coach? Check out www.MollyClaire.com to find out about Masterful Coach Foundations and the 10K Accelerator method. It's the ultimate support for you as a coach building your ideal life and business.