Intro: Welcome to the masterful coach podcast with Molly Claire. If you're a coach who's ready to impact more lives, make more money and create a life you love, you're in exactly the right place. Get the support you deserve as a female entrepreneur. Master your coaching skills, grow your ideal business, and honor your priorities in your personal life. Are you in? Let's get started with your host, best selling author and master life and business coach, Molly Claire. Molly Claire: All right, coaches. I am so excited about this collaboration today. I have back on the podcast today, Kris Jones. Say hello, Kris. Kris Jones: Hello. Hello. I'm so thrilled to be here today. Molly Claire: This is so fun. So Kris and I are doing a bit of a collaboration and we're going to talk to you about why that is and what it means for you, especially as we're starting the new year. But before we get into that, I think we should tell them about how this even came about, right? Kris Jones: Agreed. Yeah. Molly Claire: So Kris, just as a refresher, tell everyone who you are and what you do. Kris Jones: My name is Kris Jones and I am a story brand guide. I am crazy about storytelling, but I love to do it in a way for coaches and self employed service providers to help them tell their story in a way that turns their website or their sales page into their award winning top sales employee. I want you to have a full time, 24/7 sales employee that is working for you to basically turn leads into paying clients. So you can focus on just doing that coaching work that you love to do. Molly Claire: Oh my gosh. And I'll just say, when we did our work together where you helped me with my sales page, which I'll talk more about, it was so fun to see it come together. And I know you've said this, Kris, that there's something really powerful about having a simple sales page that's so good and so specific and so direct and it's almost like such a natural easy read for the reader that there's something about it that just gives you a lot of confidence and excitement to share your sales page. Kris Jones: Exactly. I mean, I think so many coaches cringe when someone's like, "Oh, how can I find you online?" Or, "What's your website?" Right? And then you just kind of go, "Oh, well, I haven't updated in a long time. Like, don't go there. Just email me." But there's something really different when you can really proudly send people to your page and know that it's actually going to convert and work for you. And the other thing I want to add on to that is, not only do you become more confident about your online presence, and your website, and sales page, as a tool to sell for you, but the viewer - your leads - also feel really wonderful when they're navigating through this sales page. They feel seen. They feel heard. They feel like they're not alone in their struggle. They feel like you're the best one to be solving this problem for them. And as their questions arise at the same time you're presenting the answers to those questions. And a lot of this happens subconsciously. All they know is that they feel a deep sense of connection to you and that they feel really held as they navigate through your page because you're really telling a story and you're tapping into those parts of the brain that really help build trust. And not only are you excited about the program that you're selling, but they're really excited to work with you. So when you get on a sales call with them, you hop on a sales call, you're actually not selling. The page has done that work for you. They're just essentially like, "I'm ready to join. What do I do?" Molly Claire: Yes, the heavy lifting is already done. Yes. I remember when this last year we had, in our community, I had brought Jodi Moore - she's a friend and colleague and coach - she said something that stood out to me so much that, having to work hard on a sales call is the price you pay for not having good marketing in place. And I think about that sales page as part of that good marketing, right? Warming people up. And it's true. Then it's just a matter of sealing the deal that it's for them. And they can see that. Kris Jones: I mean, it really becomes more like you're interviewing them to make sure they're the right fit for your program, rather than this kind of desperation of like, "Please join, please join." Molly Claire: Okay. So now you know who Kris is. And again, we did an interview a while back. And so of course you can go back and watch that too. So this is how Kris and I came together. I actually scheduled Kris to be on my podcast before I had actually worked with you, right? And we had someone in common, Christine, that I knew that you knew. So I interview Kris, and then, within a couple days, I was on a consult with Kris. I was like, "Hey, you know, I wonder if you could help me with my copy." And what's so cool about my experience working with Kris is that she was helping me to create a sales page. I don't even remember for which program it was, but as I started working through it, it actually brought to light for me this kind of super skill that I have and use in my programs, in my business, where I help coaches create a killer program, right? And so it had always been there in the work and I had done it with my clients, but I just never led with it. And so what's so cool is that as Kris and I were working together, it kind of birthed that entry point of that offer where I now have worked with two groups, helping them to create that killer program. So anyway, fast forward a little bit. Here we are. I help coaches create a killer program. Kris, of course, has this knack for - I don't know if knack's the right word even, like a gift - helping you to bring your offer, bring it to life, with the reader on that page. So we decided to come together and we're going to tell you more about that. But here we are. We want to talk with you about the power of a program, what that means for you as a coach and for your clients, how to articulate it and how the right sales page is everything when it comes to moving your business forward. Kris Jones: Yeah. And I'd love to add to that. Most coaches know they need to have a program of some sort, and creating a program really isn't the hard part. It's creating a program that can promise results, that you can confidently really know that your clients are gonna get the results that you're promising. And creating a program like that is a whole different arena than just creating a program. Molly Claire: Yep, that's so true. That's right. It's like the program needs to be clear to you as a coach, clear to the client, and actually provide the results, right? Yeah. Kris Jones: And when you do that, when you promise and you know with confidence that you can promise the results and get them the results, which ultimately, in my opinion, is about solving a problem for them. When you solve a really important problem, you can charge a premium for that. And so my job is really helping support you and actually writing that copy for you so you don't have to write it yourself and really feeling like your clients are like, this is a no brainer. I'm going to fork over whatever you want to charge. And then you're on the receiving end of that feeling like, I am really feeling well compensated for my expertise. Molly Claire: And just really quick. So on this podcast, as we talk through this, Kris and I are going to talk about these important elements that we teach and that we offer, and we're also offering a webinar. So we're going to tell you more about that. But if either you're insecure about your program, or you don't have one, and you've been putting it off, this is the place for you to be. If you know what you do with your clients, but you don't know how to articulate it in your offer, this is a place for you to be. And for sure, if you're intrigued by this idea of story brand copy, this is definitely the place, because Kris is amazing at it. Kris Jones: Yes. And if you feel stuck with a sales page that is not doing the job of selling for you, this is also the right place for you to be. Molly Claire: Yeah. Yeah. That's right. But I wanted to mention something, Kris, that you said about that premium price. When a program is solid, when it works, when you're confident that it works and you tie it together in that nice pretty bow on the sales page, it does mean a premium price. And it was so interesting. One of my clients that I was working with on designing her killer program, I had been working with her in her business and helping her. We'd been working on her coaching skills and so many things. And she had her price that she charged. And then when we did that killer program work, where she really articulated so clearly what she was doing, and how she articulated it, and the difference it made for her clients, it was so interesting that when I asked her, her price point, it was more than twice what her price point had been before. Because she was so clear and solid that she wasn't just offering coaching, but she was really offering a result that these people wanted. So it does make such a difference. Kris Jones: It really does. I worked with a client not long ago who was on the verge of burnout, like, really ready to shut the doors. And we revamped his language, and his offerings. And he sent me an email a couple months later and he said, "I'm actually charging six times more for the exact same service." Molly Claire: Oh my God. Kris Jones: And he said, "Not only that, I'm attracting a different type of client. The type of client that's not draining me. A type of client that respects my boundaries." And it was just such a different type of exchange. When you charge a premium, you actually are working with a different caliber of client Molly Claire: Absolutely. It's so true. Okay, so let's break this down a little bit. Let's first talk about - well, we've already kind of started talking about it, right? But the idea of a program specifically. So I know some coaches really are taught in their certification, or I guess, given a program to walk people through. But a lot of coaches, especially that are in my space, that are attracted here, those of you listening, many of you learn coaching skills. But then it's up to you to really define and design how you deliver the coaching and what your niche is and all of that. And so I want to just speak to the power of a good program. Because now, more than ever, there are coaches and consultants and courses like everywhere, right? It's so much more common. And I think that two things, I think this is all the more reason for you to make sure that your program is clear and unique and stands out. And number two, all the more reason to make sure that it is effective and giving results, right? Because I just am convinced that we can have good sales and marketing can get people in the door. But I think the businesses that are going to stand and stand the test of time, especially in any economy are those that lead with service. Right. Yeah. Kris Jones: And results. Molly Claire: Yeah. And results. Wherever you are on the spectrum of like, no program to the best program ever, I think this is a good time to evaluate where you are and think about how much more confident you'll be as you market, as you sell, and as you set your prices, when you're more clear and confident that you can deliver that results. Kris Jones: Right. I think one of the mistakes that I see often - well, there are a few, but the first one - is really making ourselves the hero of our own story. And I totally understand why this happens. We're like, this is our website. We should talk about ourself. So that happens. Or the other thing that happens is we feel like we need to write our own copy. This is our business. We don't have a big budget. And so we really struggle to write our own copy. And it's not that the copy isn't good, but it needs to be really strategic in order to stand out. And so what happens is a lot of coaches will feel torn between, "Should I write my own copy? Should I invest in a copywriter? But if I invest in a copywriter, how are they going to know the nuances of me, my offer, my clientele? Or should I just write it myself and invest in a designer? Cause I know that's going to have to happen too." And so often we feel torn between like those options. And I'm a big believer that the way to kind of bubble up to the top of a crowded market, and bubble up to the top of the internet is to really have clear words, strategic storytelling that converts combined with design that brings that story to life. And that's why I love the work that I do, because for a really affordable price, I ensure that you have both of those things dialed in. Now, both of those things would not be effective if the program itself weren't really effective. So you absolutely have to have that component done first. Molly Claire: Yeah. Yeah. And I've seen the difference it makes. And I'll just back up for a minute and just say, I know that I've seen a lot of coaches struggle with designing a program because they're so afraid of that niche commitment. And one of the things that I do, in fact, in Create Your Killer program, the program, it's like, you can have a very super specific niche, but you can also have a more general niche and still carve out a really specific program. So I think it's important to remember that if anyone's feeling like, "Well, I wouldn't, you know, be ready for making a program, cause I don't have my niche dialed in..." By creating that specific program, I find it actually helps coaches to refine that and move forward. Kris Jones: Completely. Yeah, no, that's true. Molly Claire: And just as Kris was talking, you guys, I have to tell you, I remember when I was working with you, Kris, a couple of things. One thing that I loved about working with you is that, as I filled out the questions from you, you put the copy together and then we talked through it on the call together. And so I definitely have had that hiccup with, I've typically written my copy for my business almost the entire time I've been in business. And so for me, whenever other people have tried to write in my voice, my style, they haven't quite hit the mark. And this was like that magical combination because I feel like enough came from me. Then you put the expert touch on it, and then we just shifted it a little bit. And it does make a big difference. And I remember when I first saw the copy in the page, I just felt so much lighter. And, keep in mind, I'm not new to this or anything, right? I mean, I've been in business almost a decade and it's a great experience. It's a great feeling when you have that copy clear and- Kris Jones: Yes, you know, I've been doing this now 20 years and so that is how and why I've been able to create the process that I've created. I don't know anyone else who's doing it, doing the work the way that I do. Because I've watched too many clients or too many coaches essentially get to the point where they're really busy and they're like, "Okay, it's worth it. I'm going to hire a copywriter. Here's thousands of thousands of dollars." And then what ends up happening is they're busy. They're ready to hand it over. But when a copywriter goes out and works in a silo, you can't outsource your own voice. You just can't. So what a lot of clients that I've had come to me after going through that experience and they'll say, "I outsourced my copy and it came back to me. And then essentially had a bunch of revisions. There was back and forth and back and forth and back and eventually I just pretty much felt like I wrote it myself. And it took longer than if I had written it by myself, right? And way more expensive." And so that's really the key of that. You know, I'm able to pull that beautiful gold of out from inside your brain. The story is inside of you and I can identify. I can ask specific questions that can pull out that story inside of you that allows me to write your copy. So you are not stuck staring at a blinking cursor on a Google doc. Because we've all been there. It feels a little bit like torture. And then, I think, one of the most fun and powerful parts of the process is what you're talking about that step three, where I've written your copy for you, but we get on that 90 minute collaboration call and we really make sure it is completely aligned with your voice and we do a little bit of fine tuning and tweaking to make sure it's dialed in for your particular program and the nuances of your clientele. And by the end of that 90 minute call, it's done. I mean, the whole process took you under two and a half hours, Molly. I mean, of course it takes me and my team longer than that because we're really, you know, we're into every detail of it. But the coaches I work with are just, they're juggling, their plates are full and they've got too many balls in the air. So the last thing they have time for is either writing their own copy, or learning how to write strategic copy. Who wants to do that? Molly Claire: Not to mention that all the rules are always changing, you know, online marketing. And it's just like, how do you keep up? How do you have the best practices? And I have, you know, 50 skills to learn this week alone or whatever it is. Right? Kris Jones: Right? Right. Yeah. And then, after that, you're not left to your own devices to just- you've got the copy, you know it's going to work for you. You're excited to get it onto your website. And then I get to hold your hand throughout and make sure and guide you with the design of the page as well. So you're not feeling like, "Oh gosh, now I've got to yet hire somebody else to design it if you don't want to." Molly Claire: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And as all of you are listening, of course, here we are saying it's important to have a program. It's important to be able to articulate it. It's important to have a good sales page. I think all of this is true. And if any of you are having that sense of I'm not ready yet, stay with us here. Because one of the things that Kris and I both do and both speak to as we teach - and I don't know how much we'll talk about this here. We'll for sure be talking about it on the live webinar. But really, it's important not only to get these steps done, but to understand how to shift and tweak and adjust once you have this work. Because I think, I do think it's a mistake when people wait, they think, "Oh, I'll wait to do it all. So I have all of this experience." But then guess what? You're not building your business and you just get burned out. Right, right, right. Kris Jones: Yeah. I mean, your business is kind of like your baby, right? It grows and evolves as you grow and evolve. Your business grows and evolves. Your offerings grow and evolve. So rather than feeling like you have to start over every time you make a little pivot or you evolve to a new level of your business, you've got those tools with you. You've got that skill set to just make some refinements and you know how to do that. Molly Claire: Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I think is so fun. And this is part of the reason why Kris and I wanted to collaborate on this is it's like in Create Your Killer program. I'm giving my clients the actual steps. They are actually creating it. And so I'm not doing it for them, but I am clearly guiding them and making it so easy. It's like a plug and play for them. And I'm teaching them how to design that. And so literally, in fact, just today, I have a client who, she's toward the end of the program, and she actually said, "You know what? I want to move over and do this niche." And it's a different niche and it's not a problem. Because all the work we've done applies here and it's just a tiny shift. And Kris's work, actually it does the same thing, right? Because you and I worked on one sales page and we created that. And I so easily know how to shift and tweak for the next offer, or the next version of my offer. Which is pretty cool, to think you have help actually getting it done and having the tools to do it yourself going forward. Kris Jones: Right, right. I mean, the goal, in my opinion, it's probably not the best business model, right? But the goal is to really teach you how to fish so you aren't dependent on us forever more. Of course, we're always here to support you, but I really want to empower my clients, and I know you do too, to really thrive and not be dependent on forking over money every time your business changes or evolves. Molly Claire: Yes, that's right. We know there's plenty of stuff we can spend money on in our business, without repaying for the same service over and over again as it changes. So, okay. So a program, right? A clear program. And then one of the things that I focus on in Create a Killer Program, and this is almost like where it crosses over into the work that Kris does is, as you create your program in your business, what you're actually doing with your clients and what's actually getting the results, you have to also be clear and articulate what that offer looks like. The words you actually use to describe to your clients. How you help them. And so, we do some of that. And then of course, Kris, like that's where you kind of run with clients, to not only use the right words, but use them in the right format, in that story format Kris Jones: Right. I'm a big believer in story brand. There's a book called Building a Story Brand and I got to work with Donald Miller and be mentored by him prior to him even writing the book. Yeah, it's really, I feel very very blessed. And my passion is really helping you tell your story in a way that just completely resonates with your ideal client, clients, or potential clients and really having them realize, this is a no brainer for me to hire you. And one of the things that I didn't expect when I created my program, my offer, is what I'd hear from my clients after the fact. And one of the main things that I find most delightful is people tell me, "I thought I was hiring you to write my sales page copy, but actually what you've created, of course, a sales page copy, but it's also my brand, and my offer copy Bible." And so anytime you ever need to create copy related to your program or your offerings, you go back to the document that I wrote for you and you copy and paste from that document. So you're never having to sit there frustrated, trying to figure out, what am I going to post on Instagram? What am I going to write in this email sequence? It's all there for you. Your story doesn't change. Your story is really the foundational work of your business. And so, having a document that you can continually go back to, so you never have to start from scratch, is gold. Molly Claire: Oh my gosh, it really is. And I know I can just say for myself, I'm like, I mean, I've been writing my own copy for a long time. But that sales page was, it just felt so good, so easy, so light. And of course, I quickly sent some people your way too. Some of my clients I, because I was talking with them during the process of deciding, should I do this? And it just was a great process. Kris Jones: I think that's part of why we decided to collaborate. Because you're like, "Okay, I've got somebody all set up with their program and now they need you." And we decided, okay, why don't we just merge this together and create an experience that's really comprehensive, but also easy and fun and supported. Molly Claire: Yes. Yes. I want to talk just for a minute about what we're going to be doing in the webinar. Because, so as you're hearing this, this is like the week of American Thanksgiving coming up, and this coming Friday, we're going to be putting out our, Green Friday special, where we're going to be inviting all of you to the webinar. And you actually can register for the webinar from the show notes here on this podcast ahead of time. But we're going to be offering a webinar, The Program Powerhouse, where Kris and I will both be there. And we're going to be talking about this elite framework that I teach where it is a simple process, step by step, of moving forward to create a program. We're going to be talking - not we, I can't say we - Kris will be talking about story brand copywriting specifically. And Kris, I know we talked about you actually showing maybe a live example on that webinar, right? Where you're giving feedback on like in real time. Kris Jones: On the webinar, I would love to pick somebody from the audience and pull up their website and give them really valuable feedback on what kind of story they're telling. Where are the holes in their boat that need to be plugged, and how I would apply the StoryBrand framework to their current page. So that's going to happen absolutely for at least one, maybe more, people who attend the webinar. Molly Claire: Yeah, I think that's gonna be great. And one of the things that this reminds me of is, an issue I hear a lot from coaches where either they, and this kind of goes back to what you were saying about thinking that we need to be the hero of our story, is that coaches think that they have to have gone through the exact same thing their clients have in order to be qualified to help them, which is not true. And they think that if that is the case, because sometimes that is the case, right, where they've gone through that same thing. And then they think, though, that they have to have mastered it or be perfect at it. And I think this story brand framework, and Kris can correct me if I'm wrong, or adjust what I'm saying here is, but I think that this teaches you how, whether you went through what you help your clients with or not, there's actually a very skilled way as to how you present yourself as the guide for your client on that journey. And so it kind of addresses, I think, what often is the root of imposter syndrome for people. Kris Jones: I mean, here's a really new way to think about talking about your business, right? You're not the hero of your own story. Just quickly, every story begins with a hero who has a problem they don't know how to solve. And eventually they meet a guide who can help them solve that problem. So, what happens is, your story is actually not about you. And hopefully that really lets you off the hook from that feeling of like, "What? I don't know how to talk about myself. What am I going to write?" Your story is not about you. It's about inviting your hero, your heroes, your potential client, your potential coachee, right? Inviting them into a narrative with you. A narrative where they are the hero and you are the guide. And so that can really just let you off the hook around trying to figure out what to say. It's really... We do talk about, you absolutely are the guide. You play the character of the guide in this story. But we really talk about you as it relates to them. So a lot of coaches and a lot of, I mean, I would say 99 percent of the internet, they are talking about themselves. I don't care if you're a big corporation or a solopreneur, most people are making themselves the hero of their own story by talking about themselves. And so what I want to do is shift that a little bit. It's a nuanced shift, but it makes all the difference. And it shows your potential clients that you care more about them and solving their problem than you care about yourself. Molly Claire: Yeah. I mean, I think we could talk about that in so many ways. But I mean, that's something even with coaches, right? When my coaches are getting in their head and I'm helping them to improve their skills. It's like, it's always about how are we making this about the client always. Not about us. And it's the same thing with our sales copy. Kris Jones: Yeah, true. Molly Claire: Okay. So the webinar, for those of you that are coming, we're going to talk about that elite framework, the story brand copywriting. And then we're talking about how this can make 2024 your best income year yet. And I was thinking about this, I'm like, okay, can we really promise this? And I'm going to say yes, because here's the thing. Obviously we can't do the work, for those who come to this webinar. However, think about this, all of you, if you have a clear program, you are confident in your program that it can provide results, and you know the words to use to articulate to people what you do. And then add on with that a sales copy that allows your potential client to feel seen and heard, and to actually feel this sense of, this is exactly what I need where they're already sold before they get on the call, that's like, a pretty magical recipe, if you ask me, to move a business forward. Kris Jones: It really is. And when I show you how to apply the StoryBrand framework to a real life example on the webinar, you're going to be able to take that wisdom and insight and apply it to your own page. So that's hugely valuable. We learn so much. I mean, as coaches, know this already, right? We learn so much when we watch others being coached and there's huge value that comes from that. So I'm going to show you exactly how to master the art of story brand. And you're never going to talk about your business in the same way again. Molly Claire: It's so cool. I just, I love it. And I've already, I know for me, already the sales page that we did, I've tweaked it for some other things. And I know those of you listening to this, you can see an example of what Kris's work looks like, obviously on your site, right? Reddoordesigns.com. And if you go to mollyclaire.com, and click on Create Your Killer Program. That is the copy that we created from the story brand framework. So it's pretty cool to see an action. Yeah. Kris Jones: It's incredibly powerful. You know, like I said, I've been doing this work for 20 years. And in 2017, I dove into storytelling. I flew across the country to learn about story. I delved deep into it for many, many, many, many months and began implementing the framework. I've never seen anything work so effectively to create change for my clients. I mean, my clients, my goal is to help them grow their business to help them make more money, to help them work less and earn more. And time and time and time again, I've watched this framework work, and I think it's because it isn't a trendy, fleeting solution. Story is timeless. And it really does tap into that back part of our animal brain and helps us feel things that other marketing tactics just can't touch. And I love that it's authentic, true and timeless. Molly Claire: Yes, yes. Oh, I love that. And it goes back to, you know, the other point I was making about a business, a service that actually works. That's timeless too, right? The businesses that are lasting and that succeed are led with quality service. And then that idea of the story that connects with people and brings them in, it's just. See, this is why we're collaborating on this. It's so cool. Okay. Kris Jones: We'd be hugging right now if we were in the same room. I know. Molly Claire: Okay. So listen, coaches, hopefully you've already loved the things that we have talked about here. I'm hoping that you feel more excited about your program, the year to come, how you can actually have copy that feels amazing to you. So hopefully you're already feeling inspired. And in the show notes here, and you can also go to mollyclaire.com and find it, you can register for the Program Powerhouse Webinar. It is going to be first week of December. Kris and I will both be there. I'm going to bring my program tips and guidance. Kris is going to bring her story brand copywriting brilliance and do some examples. The goal of that is, not only we will be sharing with you how you can work with both of us together at the beginning of the year to check all these boxes, which we're so excited about. And there will be a pretty incredible discount available on that webinar. So not only will we be doing that, but also in the webinar, in and of itself, you're going to really learn some powerful things to move forward. So anything else to add to that, Kris? Kris Jones: Well, just that our mission on this webinar is to make 2024 your best income year yet. Molly Claire: Yeah, yeah, that's right. And simple as well, right? Because I think that these things we're teaching and helping you with absolutely are the foundation for your best income year yet. And I know from working with Kris, her process is so simple. The process I do is so simple. And so I think there's something magical about knowing I can make more money and it can also be easier by checking these boxes. Kris Jones: And I think especially over the holidays and starting the new year, it's so easy to get overwhelmed with just the flood of advice coming at you from all different directions with different gurus online telling you this solution will work, and that solution will work. We're telling you, you can tune out of all of that noise and tune into our webinar and walk away with timeless knowledge, and wisdom, strategies, and tools that you can immediately apply to your business in order to make 2024 the best year yet. Molly Claire: Yes. Okay. We're so excited. Right. I'm going to go back register right now for our own webinar. Kris Jones: Me too. Molly Claire: All right. Thank you so much, Kris, for being here. Kris Jones: It was such a joy. I'm really, really excited about our, our work together. Molly Claire: Yeah. Me too. So thanks all of you for listening and hopefully we will be seeing all of you on that webinar coming up. So check the show notes, go to mollyclaire.com and sign up and we'll see you there. Intro: Thanks for listening to the Masterful Coach Podcast. Are you ready to build your amazing business with Molly as your coach? Check out www.MollyClaire.com to find out about Masterful Coach Foundations and the 10K Accelerator Method. It's the ultimate support for you as a coach building your ideal life and business.