Intro: Welcome to The Masterful Coach podcast with Molly Claire. If you're a coach who's ready to impact more lives, make more money and create a life you love, you're in exactly the right place. Get the support you deserve as a female entrepreneur. Master your coaching skills, grow your ideal business, and honor your priorities in your personal life. Are you in? Let's get started with your host, best selling author and master life and business coach, Molly Claire. Molly Claire: Hey coaches, I am so excited to bring you the amazing Katie Pulsifer today. We are talking in this episode about the power of listening. This is something that Katie is really leaning into and teaching more of, with her clients, and specifically how listening starts with listening to ourselves, attuning to what we see going on for us. And something I know many of you relate to as coaches, as people that help, and fix, and solution is that it can be challenging to listen to what's going on for ourselves without believing that we need to change it or fix it or maybe even think we are doing everything all wrong. So if you relate to this, this episode is for you. This conversation for me was just such a beautiful experience with Katie. She and I definitely share the sentiment in the value of really connecting with yourself and all that we can learn from that. And how, the better we do that for ourselves, the more capable we are of listening with our clients and we can, in turn, help our clients to do a better job of listening to themselves. All right, I hope you enjoyed this episode half as much as I enjoyed this conversation with Katie. All right, coaches. Oh, Katie, I am so excited to have you here today. Katie Pulsifer: I'm thrilled to be here. Molly Claire: This is great. I wanted to bring Katie on the podcast because I know many of my listeners are familiar with you because so many of them are connected with the Life Coach School, either as students, or being aware and of course you've worked with the school for a while. So I know many of you listening already know Katie. But I'm so excited to have Katie here because Katie is such an example to me of bringing excellence to everything that she does. I'm going to talk more about that, but Katie, just say hello and tell us a little bit about how you came to coaching and a little bit about your story. Katie Pulsifer: Thank you. Oh, I'm really honored to be here. Thank you for having me. And it's just fun to spend time with a dear old friend. We've known each other forever. Molly Claire: But I know, well, when we started recording, Katie and I have talked recently, but we both came on Zoom and we haven't been on Zoom together in a while. And it was like this weird flashback moment. So it's really fun. Katie Pulsifer: Well, I found coaching in 2012. I hired a coach at a time in my life that I was really struggling with big decisions around the ending of my first marriage, my long time beloved corporate career in product design and development, and just like at a total crossroads in my mid forties. And I absolutely fell in love with coaching. It challenged me in a way that I did not expect, that was hard good. You know what I mean? It's just like, "Oh, this is so hard, but I know it's so good for me." And I was just hooked. And so in the kind of unraveling of that whole part of my adult life that it looked one particular way, I turned it into becoming a coach in 2015. And I just started coaching people for the sheer love of it and wanting to kind of pay it forward, everything I had gotten out of it. I just wanted to like gift it and pay it forward. And then I found LCS and got certified in 2016 and eventually came over to work for the school for a number of years. And that's how we met. And got master certified, trained at LCS and ran all kinds of programming and things like that. But I've always had my business on the side and now I am doing that full time, which is absolutely thrilling to me to be able to kind of get back to what I have always loved about coaching. Which is this one on one work, this very personalized experience. And so grateful for all of the big programming and big work I got to do at LCS and helping so many coaches get to do this work in the world. But now I get to do it one on one with clients, which is really thrilling. Molly Claire: So amazing. And I think as you were talking, that is exactly what I say about how I felt about coaching. I fell in love with- I think that's on my website because that's how it feels. It's like, when you find it and you connect with it, you know it and you feel it. And I think a lot of my listeners relate to this. And this is one of the challenges that I think a lot of coaches have, is that we fall in love with coaching. We know we want to be a part of it, but most people don't really realize the business piece of it, right? So that's the challenge. It's like, here we are. We're heart centered coaches. We love it. We want to help people. And then we got to figure out the business stuff. So I think I just like to acknowledge that for my listeners, because I know a lot of people feel that way. Katie Pulsifer: Oh, absolutely. I did too for so long. And so many of people in your community will know and remember me saying, "Oh, I didn't get the entrepreneur gene." Or, "I didn't get the business gene. And I don't know how to do any of that marketing stuff. And I have to go work for someone else." I do believe that all of those thoughts used to be true. And I was very invested in believing that because it supported this dream to work for someone else and do work on a really big scale. Which was such an honor to do that for the time that I was at LCS. But then now, in the last several years, I've been just like poking holes in that thinking. It's like, well, what if that's not actually true? Because there was something inside of me that was like kind of knocking, trying to get my attention. It's like, maybe that's not true anymore. Maybe you could actually figure it out. And what I've realized, is I've been an entrepreneur for the last five years that I've worked at LCS. Molly Claire: Yeah, I mean, really, Katie Pulsifer: I was like, Oh, that thought, "I'm not an entrepreneur." That's not even true at all. Molly Claire: That's not even close to true. Okay. So I love this. And those of you listening, this is just my two cents about this. I think for some of you that love coaching, this is what I've found anyway, sometimes I do start working with people and they actually really don't want their own business. And I want to say to those of you that feel that way, that is okay. And for those of you that, that relate to Katie feeling like, "Well, I don't have that gene." Your feeling and relationship to entrepreneurship can change, for sure. Katie Pulsifer: It can. I love believing that this is very, very fluid. And that our truth and what we know about ourselves is alive, and dynamic, and moving, and shifting, and changing with more inputs and more information. And it's so fun to think that we won't necessarily be one way the entire time. I mean, I am just a classic example of that. And I've talked to so many coaches that actually changed their mind and it kind of surprises them about this, that they can fall in love with business or be really good at it when they didn't expect that they would. Molly Claire: Yeah. Yeah. It's so, so true. And I would say I've had mixed thoughts because I feel like I always had that entrepreneurial spirit. I was in elementary school and I made flyers for my neighborhood. And I was working when I was a little kid in all kinds of capacities and, you know, many things as I got older. And I did feel very challenged when I started building my coaching business. Because it's kind of like, "Oh, I love coaching. And I think I'm doing well at doing, you know, the coaching skills are there and my clients are getting results. But wow, how many other skills do I have to learn?" And it seems like I have to learn them pretty well if I'm going to succeed. So Katie Pulsifer: Yeah, yeah, but isn't that what we've signed up for, too? Is like a growth mindset, learning new things, trying new things, face planting. I mean, me figuring out social media right now is hilarious. Molly Claire: bye, right? Katie Pulsifer: Because part of me doesn't care if I look like an idiot, which is so refreshing because we spend so much time like, "how do I do it perfectly? And what's the right way? And how do we say things?" And it's so lovely to just be like, "I have no idea. I don't care." I'm just putting it out there. We'll course correct as we go. We've got to move. Molly Claire: Right. We got to move. We just do. I love it. Katie Pulsifer: Got to grow. Got to move. Molly Claire: So today we are going to be talking about listening, listening well. And I know as Katie and I have talked about this, it's highlighting what this looks like for you as a coach and in particular, listening to yourself. All of you that listen here and follow regularly know this is something I'm a huge believer in, is tuning into you. And when Katie and I spoke and she talked about this concept of listening, and how she brings it in, in that very way, I just knew that it was the perfect thing to talk about. So, yeah. So we're going to be talking about that, but a couple of things I just want to say, kind of going back to Katie and I connecting. So Katie and I, of course, worked at the school LCS and one of the things that I think has always really stood out to me about you, Katie, is it's like, in some ways I feel like you and I are very opposite. Katie Pulsifer: Okay. Yeah. I can't wait to hear this. Molly Claire: I know, right? In a good way. Maybe opposite's not quite the right word. But I just, your calm presence, and your just like, steady demeanor is- it just looks like a superpower to me. Katie Pulsifer: Oh, okay. Molly Claire: Okay. It's amazing. So that's why I'm excited to hear about this topic with you. I've just always admired that about you. And I wanted to highlight that because I think it's worth noting for all of you that are building your business, that you will have your unique energy and unique way of being. Katie and I are both, I would say both of us are very diligent and committed to moving forward to build whatever we want. And the way we do it and our energy and approach is so different. And I just love that. I love it. I Katie Pulsifer: So now I know exactly what you're talking about because Molly Claire: Now I know, cause I've seen you, Molly and you are, you know, yeah, Katie Pulsifer: Yeah, so we're similar in our commitment, our drive, our desire, our servant's heart, and yet our energy, or our way about getting there, is just a little bit different. Molly Claire: Which is so great. So, okay, let's dive in. Let's talk a little bit more about listening. This has kind of been something that you've really been talking more about. Share with us a little bit about your thoughts about it. Katie Pulsifer: Yeah. Well, it's something I think about all the time. It's just absolutely captivated me right now. And I think what I'm actually thinking about is how we are not great at listening anymore. And there is a lot of over talking, over speaking, interrupting, censoring, canceling, shutting down, judging. And there's a lot of that in the world for lots and lots of reasons. But I believe, and I'm seeing it in a lot of places, that we are internalizing that, and I think doing it to ourselves as well. I noticed when I'm doing it in my own life, it's like I shut something down that's kind of like percolating or bubbling up to the surface. And I'm like, so quick to shut it down. It's like, "Oh, what is this about? Why am I quieting censoring ideas?" You know, what's that voice that's coming in and telling me, "No, that's not appropriate. The timing's not right. That's not good enough." You know, all of this stuff. And so helping clients, while I'm helping myself get good at listening, it's really, really compelling to me right now. Molly Claire: And isn't it funny that it's, I mean, it's a pretty basic thing, right? We all, from when we're little, we are taught we need to listen Katie Pulsifer: Yes. Molly Claire: Aand right. It's such a basic thing. But it is, I just think about over time, how much better can all of us get at listening better in our relationships, listening better to ourselves, to our intuition. Listening and understanding too. Taking the time to listen and really get it. And I think one thing I, and I don't know if this will take us on a different direction, but I, as you were talking, and I was thinking about the challenge in each of us, listening and taking the time to listen. There are so many things competing for our attention. Katie Pulsifer: Of course. Molly Claire: And so it's like in many ways, I think it's good that we shut out, tune out, like, unsubscribe from the many voices. So how do we listen to what's most important, for our life and business and really do kind of, I know you said that word cancel, right? Like, cancel the rest out or decide that it's okay for some of that to not make it into earshot for us. Katie Pulsifer: Yeah. Well, I think it is a matter of like really working on that relationship we have with ourselves. And in a way that we can be comfortable being with ourselves and sometimes in silence or in solitude and just giving ourselves the gift of space to process. There's a lot coming at us. We have a lot of demands. We have clients that we're serving. Some of us have families, some of us have other jobs that we're taking care of, parents that are aging, or volunteer work, everything. Full, full, full, full lives. And how can we find moments in our day where we can actually get into a solitude state or some silence or just to be able to like, look inward to figure out like, what is really mattering to me right now? What needs to be heard? What needs to be acknowledged? Even if we don't maybe do anything with it, but it's like, what am I about? What matters to me right now? And I think we often, and we help our clients with this all the time, is that it's like, what's everyone else saying and how do I tune into that? And we forget to like tune into and find those answers within. Molly Claire: Yes. I mean, and as you were talking, I was thinking about, I mean, I feel like over the last several years, the work of paying attention to me, and listening, and tuning in there has been, it's been everything. It's been a practice that I've been working on. And as you were talking, kind of going back to this idea of how do we know what to listen to and pay attention to and what to close out, I kind of think that as we do have that self connection, that solitude that you're talking about, where we're giving ourselves a minute with ourselves to say, what do I need to pay attention to here? What's relevant? I think that as we do that, it's almost like the rest and what else you pay attention to or not kind of works itself out. Katie Pulsifer: It does. Molly Claire: Because when I'm tuned in with me and my needs and my wants, it's like, I don't have to force anything out. I'm just naturally drawn to paying attention to the things that are relevant. Katie Pulsifer: Yes. It beautiful the way that works out and all of a sudden it's in your periphery and you can see it in more places than you thought, right? Like you've brought it into your awareness. That's really great. Molly Claire: Yeah. I mean, this is, it's so funny, but have you ever gone on like an unsubscribe spree? Katie Pulsifer: Oh yeah. Yeah. Molly Claire: It's not like I intentionally said I'm going to start unsubscribing, but over the last few weeks, as I've been tuning into some of my needs, it's like, unsubscribing is just something that I just am naturally doing. And I didn't even realize it until a few days ago. I thought this is so interesting. All of a sudden I'm just unsubscribing everywhere and it's because I tuned into something and it's just become a part of what I'm doing, right? Katie Pulsifer: Yeah. Molly Claire: Anyway, I know that's a little bit of a side note, but I think that- Katie Pulsifer: I mean, my version of that right now is that I love to go for long walks. And I am fortunate to live on a road where I can go for four miles and it's just beautiful. And I've always used that time to get those, all those podcasts in. You know, it's just been productive time. But lately I am just walking in solitude. And it's like my version of unsubscribing at the moment. It's just that I need, I need to hear the cows. I need to hear the birds. I need to just like, I need to hear my thinking. I need to hear my heart. I need to hear, and like, bring up what is on my mind right now. And it's really hard to do that when I keep like pulling in all the inputs and all the information. Molly Claire: I know, I know. Right. And I think, and as we continue this conversation, though, as you all are listening, we're going to be talking about, obviously, how this applies to you personally. And I think also how you can bring this more into your coaching as you're listening to your clients and teaching them to listen to them. Katie Pulsifer: One of the things I've started to do with my clients, and I would love everyone listening to consider this if it works for them as well, is that making room in the coaching container to just say, what just needs to be spoken that doesn't actually need any coaching? As like an honoring to, what is coming up for you? What might you need to say out loud that doesn't need to be worked on, or fixed, or coached maybe, but just needs to be like, let's just hold space, literally. Without words, without commentary, without coaching, without judgment, what just needs to be acknowledged? This has been so fun and a little unnerving at first, because we're so used to like, “Let me get in there.” Molly Claire: For you? Or for your client? Katie Pulsifer: For the clients and for me, yeah. At first it was like, "Well, I've got to like- How does that make you feel?" would be the follow up. And it's like, "Oh, no, I'm not going to say anything. We're just going to let that like sit in this space between us." Molly Claire: I know one thing and I've talked a lot about this, and I know many of my listeners have experienced this. It's like, okay, we learn about the power of our thoughts. And looking at our actions and everything. And then we get in this mode of fixing everything, as if every thought is like a problem to be fixed or, you know, thing to be changed. And this is where I know, I can't tell you how many clients they first start with me and we're in our first call and I hear things like, "I know this is just a thought. I shouldn't be thinking this." It's like we're shutting it all down right away. And it's like, I always push to the opposite of that. Like, it's all thoughts. Okay. So what? I think sometimes with ourselves and our clients, it can be useful to just put aside any plan to do any kind of cognitive work, or the, you know, like changing of the thoughts, just to say, let's just have the space to see what's happening here, and what do we do with that? It goes very much against the idea of solving and fixing and moving forward. But I find that space to be very healing and actually to bring up what's most important for us and our clients Katie Pulsifer: Oh, absolutely. I am so glad you're bringing this up. And I'm working with a lot of coaches right now also. And It's so wonderful to teach them how to do this and how to just get better at listening to themselves without that kind of autopilot. Like, "I've gotta, I've gotta solve for this thinking." Versus "I'm just having this thinking. Isn't that interesting that I'm just having these thoughts?" Molly Claire: And maybe it's not wrong or bad, even if this thought might be, if I trace this, you know, is causing something not useful in my life. Okay, so what" it's still is okay. Katie Pulsifer: Totally. Totally. So I do think it makes perfect sense that you're doing this also with your clients. That just like, helping them just hold space for what is coming up for them without the solving, fixing energy, is going to help all of our clients get better at hearing what is coming up for them. Getting better at listening versus just moving into solution mode. It's just the pure art of listening. Yeah. Yeah. Molly Claire: You were talking, I was thinking about, for sure, for myself, I am a fixer. A solver. And one of the coaches that I've worked with quite a lot, Melanie Fay, she's been on the podcast. I know many of you know her. And she's teaching in my, master coach training. I remember this moment of her saying to me, "And what if you don't have to figure this out, or understand any of this?" Because what I was finding is that when I would notice things about myself, there was always this, just like, almost urgency to figure out why is this happening? Why am I doing this? Which makes sense, right? Because that's kind of how we think as coaches. Oftentimes we're looking for that underlying. But me always going to, "Why am I doing this? And let me understand this. And let me figure this out." And it was like this new opportunity to just have the feelings come up, have the thoughts come up and just be with it and not have to figure anything out or have it make sense. I feel like that really opened up more for me than I really can even understand at the moment. Katie Pulsifer: Oh, that's so beautiful. That's so beautiful. Yeah. It's like, we can't quite help ourselves. We've got to turn everything into a project. Molly Claire: I know, right? Oh my God. Katie Pulsifer: I think, to be worked on, you know. And I guess the older I get or, the more I do this work, the more I realized like there's actually less to do. There's like less work Molly Claire: I know. It's a beautiful thing, isn't it? Katie Pulsifer: It really is because it's just like, "Oh, okay. There's this thing that I'm thinking and it's fine. It's just with me today. It's okay. It's just here. It doesn't need me to like, drop everything and move it to the top of the list, as this thing that I like have to go aggressively solve and attack and fix and work on." Molly Claire: So, and in a minute, I'd love for you to give either some specific tips or thoughts or ideas for those listening of how they can do a better job of- better job. Here we go again. We're already fixing how they can fix the way they listen. It's so, it's just there, right? But thoughts that you want to share with them as to how, you know, that listening can become a stronger skill. But before we do, I want to ask you, well, I want to share my thought about this. So, you know, we're talking about being with yourself more, and that solitude, and the way you described it sounded like a very positive experience. And I can say for me, that being with myself is a very positive experience. And I think that we hear a lot. In fact, I just read a post the other day kind of talking about, "Oh, we think more time with ourself will be great, but it actually feels horrible." And I don't agree with that. I want to push back on that. I think uncomfortable feelings can exist. But those of you listening that just are buying into this idea that space or quiet or time is terrible or bad, but you're going to have to just like muscle through it. I tend to disagree, because as I built a stronger relationship with myself and I found more of a space of compassion and peace and just, I don't know, all of this, I enjoy being with myself. I enjoy the silence. But I'd love to know your thoughts on that, either agreeing or disagreeing or something in between or any of it. Katie Pulsifer: Yeah. I mean, I definitely think that my time with myself, it feels like a respite. It feels it's something that I genuinely crave. And when I don't get enough of it, I'm off. I'm really, really off. So I just know that it's just part of my makeup. If I just need quality Katie time. Now, is it my favorite? Yes. Is it always awesome? Absolutely not. There are times that being with myself, I'm just like, you know, round and round and round in my brain about things that I don't need to be giving my attention to. My feelings are all over the place. I am really uncomfortable. But I do believe, like you, that act of attention, one-on-one, building that relationship with myself is the thing that makes me such an amazing listener. And I am told that. I've always been told that. I think that's what makes me an amazing coach. And so it is that like, can I sit with myself? Can I be with myself for all of it, even when it's not so pretty? Because it is like building a skill that then serves me so well inside a coaching conversation. Molly Claire: Yeah. Yeah. I think so. And those of you listening, listen, whether you love being with yourself and you love silence, or you hate it, or you're somewhere in between, I just want to offer up to you; first of all, that the way you experience it is not wrong at all. And if you have a very challenging experience of it, I also want you to know that that can change. Not that there won't be challenges or uncomfortableness, but I genuinely believe that the more we can be with ourselves, offer compassion, and just space and love to ourselves, that that experience can get much better over time. Katie Pulsifer: Definitely. And I think it can be aided by a really wonderful coach. Molly Claire: Yeah. Katie Pulsifer: Like, a coach can help us build that relationship with ourselves, like, just be the witness of us being with ourselves and actually begin to just create security and safety and just a gentleness. That's what I think is so amazing about what we get to do. Because I do believe there are a lot of people that really don't want to spend time with themselves for a variety of reasons. My heart goes out to each and every single one of them. I know that that can be really, really difficult. So as coaches, for all of you listening, we get to like sit side by side with someone like that, and show them the way and, and make that a little more accessible through the space we create together. Molly Claire: I mean, I agree. It's a big deal. And I can say that for myself, definitely. Because, you know, as I'm saying, "Well, I have it as a positive experience." It's also very true that even now at times, I really just need to be on with my coach when I go through feeling something because it really helps me with someone. And so I love that you said that you, all of you listening, like when you can just be with your client, when they are dealing with anything or their feelings, just being there with them, it's really a big deal. It's really powerful and it matters. Katie Pulsifer: Yes. I always think it's like the greatest honor of our lifetime is to- I mean, cause that's what we're really doing at the end of the day. I know it feels like it's also about building relationships, or a business, or becoming a better coach, or whatever the R is that the client wants to work on. But really, what we're doing is helping the client access themselves, build a better relationship with themselves, honor themselves, be more true to themselves. I mean, that's the best. Yeah. Molly Claire: That's it. Yeah. Okay. So, Katie, what would you say to those listening that are interested in this and want to maybe open the door to listening a little bit more in their life or to themselves? Katie Pulsifer: Well, I think it starts with what I suggested earlier, which is just creating a little bit of room in your life, maybe on a daily basis to kind of tune everything out, create some silence, create space to just go inside and find out what's going on. And it may take a bit for that to get activated, or that may be like a little bit of a restless experience, which is totally fine. There may not be anything there that day. That's totally fine. But I think the practice of like, "I want to find out what I'm thinking." Many of us are very used to doing that in a thought download. That's incredible, of course, is to write it out. I like to say it out loud, personally. I found that just like speaking it, and this is what I sometimes do on my walks, is I just start recording myself or just talking to the trees as I'm walking along. But it's like, it's just kind of finding, giving voice to what I am thinking and feeling. So I think that's a really, really important step. And then I think the next step might be like understanding, like, where is this coming from? And being able to name whether this is someone else's voice. Is this like, just kind of in the water right now? Is this the thing everybody else is doing? So I'm saying that I should be doing it too? Or is this like genuinely coming from me? Because I think it's really important to parse out, or e,veryone else is over here and, you know. It's like, what is the origin story really of what's coming up for me right now? And does that matter? I just be truthful about that, where it's coming from. Molly Claire: Yeah. I mean, especially as you know, all of you are building your business. I mean, you want to talk about a space where you can think you're supposed to be doing all these things you're doing wrong. And it's like, I mean, the more coaches I've worked with over the years, it's like when you are true to who you are, your natural gifts, your natural way of doing and being, I mean, that's when the success comes and it just, it flows so openly. Katie Pulsifer: Yes. Molly Claire: It's hard to kind of get to that point, I think. I think that's the challenge is getting to that point where you can be so connected with yourself and have so much trust in that, that you allow it to unfold, right? Yeah. Getting there, I think. Katie Pulsifer: Yeah. So I think this is part of that. It's like, there is so much valuable information, how to use the ways to do it, the shortcuts, the processes, all of that, that is amazing. What we can put our hands on to help us as coaches. It is truly, truly, truly amazing. But when we have lost sight of like, what we're about, what we care about, what our values are, what is going to just make our hearts sing with this work? Like when all of that is like silence because we just have brought in too much other information, I think then it becomes quite difficult, right? Cause we're always like, "Wait, what am I about? And who am I? And who do I help? And what do I do?" And you know, we get really confused. And so this is kind of like the antidote to all of that confusion, is really being able to like activate quality, quality listening, Molly Claire: Yeah. I mean, I so agree. And I know many of my clients that listen know this is like, my move. If anyone could see me on video right now, I just have my hands right on my chest over my heart. And when I'm coaching my clients, and I see so often that they are overwhelmed, or they're anxious and it's almost like I can just see and feel the buzz that they're experiencing. And then we just come back, and it's like, I put my hands here. And I'm like, let's just be with you for a minute. Let's see what's going on. And just that piece of reconnecting with self, it often, it just can bring so much clarity. And I feel like that's when we can kind of remove all those worries that don't really need to be there, and really feel relaxed and settled in our path of building our business. Katie Pulsifer: right? Molly Claire: Yeah. Right. Katie Pulsifer: Yeah. That makes such a difference. Molly Claire: Yeah. and I want to go back just a minute to what you were saying about first, just kind of noticing what's going on, right? Andd eiterate that when we do that, we want to make sure that we're not trying to solve or fix like we talked about necessarily, right? And just bringing that curiosity. And I know you talked earlier about going on a walk. I found that as it's become easier and more positive for me to be still, and be with myself, it is easier for me to be still while I am with myself. But oftentimes I feel like the way I got there was moving. Walking while you are noticing can be really helpful because I think it can move some of that energy out and make it a little more tolerable if it's hard for you to have that Katie Pulsifer: Yeah. Such a great point. I mean, some people are going to be really comfortable sitting still. Others are going to be comfortable moving their bodies or some combination of both. Some are going to be more comfortable having a witness guide them, like in a coaching session, so that's a wonderful thing that we get to do. But I think it's really important, once we've uncovered something, to distinguish what we want to do with it. And we don't have to treat what we find the same way. So what I've loved to start doing is like, is this just something that needs to be spoken? Is this something that needs to be talked about, like have a conversation? Is this something that needs coaching? Is this something that I actually need to like get some consulting on, or some co creation and like, go to work on, which can be a little different than the coaching piece, but it's like, okay, now, what do I want to do with this? Molly Claire: and all the options are okay. One isn't better than another. Katie Pulsifer: Exactly. And I don't want to have a one size fits all like, "Okay, this is how I always handle thoughts like this." Because I just don't believe that's true. It's like, cause some of the thoughts that we have are just not going to stay with us very long. They're not going to get any traction and we can make a big deal out of them. Yeah. Yeah. Molly Claire: And, you know, one of the options that, the first option that you said was, does this just need to be spoken? And I think it's good for us to remember that if something just needed to be spoken, there's a lot of value in that. And it doesn't mean that it was something silly. It means it was important for it to be spoken. And that's enough. I just, I think it's important to kind of validate those things that seem silly or unnecessary. Katie Pulsifer: Oh, I agree. I agree so much. So much. Because I think that's when we chip away at ourselves a little bit. We like diminish our light. We diminish our brilliance. We cast doubt on our experience of things. We make it not have a lot of meaning and it's that erosion I think can be really challenging and difficult. And so we want to, I think as coaches, really like tune in and say, I just need to say this. "I don't know what I'm going to do with it. I don't know if it's ever going to become a thing, but I just need to say this." you don't need to comment. You don't need to. I need to say this, and put this into the world in some way, which might be to yourself on a walk or in the car, or it might be to your coach or it might be to your partner or whomever. But it's like, this needs, this needs my words. Molly Claire: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that if a friend just needed to get something off their chest, I wouldn't judge them. I'd say, "Just say it. Get it out there, Say it." And why isn't it okay for us to, and a positive thing for us. It's, we're human, right? It's normal. And yet, what you were talking about walking and talking, I've thought, "There are plenty of times where I've thought, I'm sure everyone just thinks I'm on a phone call. And we'll just, because I'm really talking to myself and practicing saying something or whatever." Katie Pulsifer: Oh, there she goes again. Molly Claire: You know, if anyone in my neighborhood is listening and they see me talking on the phone all the time, now they know I'm talking to myself. Okay. What else? Any other things that you'll offer to help this process of people listening? A little- Katie Pulsifer: Yeah. Well, I think even just being aware and being tuned into like, where are you censoring yourself? Where are you cancelling yourself because you are believing that what you have to say is true. I don't know. Does it matter? Or is it important enough or is it significant enough? I mean, this one really, it like, I am super passionate about this one because it hurts to see how many coaches I think are quick to, "Oh, I can't, I shouldn't. That's not how you do it. I don't, I've never seen anyone do it like that before." You know, and it's like they're putting their hand over their mouth and they're saying, "I'm not allowed to say this or have this thought or have this opinion." And so just noticing, like, where are you, in your life canceling, censoring, quieting yourself. Molly Claire: Oh my gosh. And as you were saying that I was thinking how I notice over time that I become more aware of ways and places that I censor myself, because places where I didn't even realize it. Right. But then it's like, "Oh, you're just saying a little smaller, a little more quiet, a little more hesitant." Katie Pulsifer: I have this client I'm working with right now, and she is a magnificent coach and she has a full, beautiful life, like we all do. And she has ambitious business goals. And yet she is exhausted. She is so tired and she keeps censoring and silencing the part of her that is tired, because it goes against this belief she has about being a business owner and building a big thriving business. Like, these two things are at odds with one another. So she keeps, it's almost like she's like tamping down, pressing down this truth, not listening to her body that is basically telling her in all sorts of ways, through, you know, Molly Claire: The check engine light is on, for sure. Katie Pulsifer: It's on. Like, body parts are hurting. Just like, what her body is going through during the day is signaling, trying to get her attention so loud and clear. And it has been so transformative to work with her around listening to that part, even though it's at odds with this vision she has of this energetic business owner. Like, this part of her that's exhausted. She's struggling to see that both of these things that are true. And so we just keep like listening to the part of her body. I don't know if she does it during the week that much yet, but when we're on the phone together, or on zoom together, it's like, we're going to listen to your body today. We are going to listen to all the ways that you want to like silence this part. Molly Claire: Yes, yes. I feel like we need to have five more episodes. I want to share a few things and then I'm going to come and have you share any last thoughts with my audience. But, you know, as Katie was talking, I was thinking about how a couple of things. One, how I do think we have this false idea that not listening to ourselves is the way that we succeed. Override your needs to have self care, or rest, or sleep. Override the fears and the doubts, just like, push them all aside. And in my experience and my experience watching others as well, you can get some success doing that. And I say success a little bit, you know, tongue in cheek, we can have some exterior results, but it's never going to be lasting. And I genuinely, I just know this to be true. I have seen this in myself and in others that when we actually listen to the needs that we have, and we pay attention to what works for us and what doesn't, that is when we will really create success. That is the external and the internal experience that we want, where we're a more whole person, right? And I'll make this really specific to one thing and then I'm, uh, and then I'm going to have Katie share some more wisdom with you, but even thinking about just at a practical level. The ways that each of you run your business, the way that you manage your time, the way that you do things. I think it can be so easy for us to think that the way we do things should be put in a box, whether it's time blocking your calendar or something that you've been taught is the way to do it. And I just want to offer to all of you that it's okay to listen to what works for you and what doesn't. Pay attention to how things impact your energy. And it is okay for you to listen to yourself and do things totally differently than you imagined. Because it works for you. Katie Pulsifer: Exactly. Oh, I am, I've been saying this a lot lately, but, I love being rebellious. I am like now- it's like, my jam. And part of this now is like whe,n I'm truly listening to myself, I am often rebelling against what the norms or the standards are, the way you're supposed to do things. Because I just, it just does not work for me. It's just, I have enough evidence to show that whatever insert thing is, it doesn't work, or all of it doesn't work, or I'm going to just take out the pieces that do and implement those. But the rebel in me usually has my best interest at heart. And it's usually when I am listening to myself the best, and that I am willing to like push back on, "Okay, I just can't do it this way. I know everybody else does it this way, but I just can't." Molly Claire: It's, a no. And I think the more we give ourselves that option of saying, "Okay, what works for me, and what doesn't? How can I pay attention to the way my body is, the way my brain is, the way I am, the way I like to do things and what works for me?" And I think the more we can honor that, I think it actually creates a really beautiful relationship with ourselves, because I no longer have to think that I'm wrong. Because that doesn't work for me, maybe I'm not- exactly how I am and it's okay to do it this way. Katie Pulsifer: Yes, exactly. Molly Claire: Yeah. Okay. Katie, any, any last words of wisdom or guidance before we wrap up? Katie Pulsifer: Oh, well, I guess I would say that I just always believe you all, you beautiful coaches, that you always know what's best. You always, always, always know what's best for you. And so when you find that you are, confused about that or uncertain or a little overwhelmed because of all the inputs that are amazing, that really working on this kind of art of listening, or as I'm calling it, listening better to just access like what is true for you, guide you every single time truly believe that Molly Claire: I love it. And I think building that muscle of listening better is time very well spent. Katie Pulsifer: If you do it with yourself, the payoff for your own life will be amazing. But the payoff in your coaching sessions, when you can listen better to your clients, and then they can listen better to themselves, and then off we go. Molly Claire: Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Okay. Katie. So all my listeners here who are dying to follow you. Where can they find you? Katie Pulsifer: Okay. You can find me at KatiePulsiferCoaching.Com. I'm also on Instagram and Facebook, and I am figuring out threads. I offer private coaching and group coaching. And I have some resources for how to listen better at katiepulsifercoaching.com /listenbetter. Molly Claire: Perfect. Thank you so much, Katie. It's been so awesome. I think we need to have another conversation here, maybe in the future. So Katie Pulsifer: That would be wonderful. Thank you so much for having me. Molly Claire: Awesome. All right, everyone. I'll talk with you next week.

Outro: Thanks for listening to the masterful coach podcast. Are you ready to build your amazing business with Molly as your coach? Check out www.MollyClaire.com to find out about Masterful Coach Foundations and the 10K Accelerator method. It's the ultimate support for you as a coach building your ideal life and business.