Molly Claire 00:45

Welcome to this episode, Coaches. I'm excited to have Caryn Gillan here. Welcome to the show, Caryn. 

Caryn Gillen 00:53

Thank you. Thanks for having me. It's good to be here. 

Molly Claire 00:55

I'm so excited about this conversation because it's so funny. It's like we live in this coaching world where we're often seeing what other coaches are doing from afar and hearing about, you know, what program this person's offering and that person. And I always love when I hear from multiple people, something out of the ordinary or unique or spectacular about someone and then connecting with them and hearing more about it. And that's really, that's kind of what caused me to reach out to Caryn. Cause we, when did we meet Caryn? Like 2018? I don't know. It must've been really memorable.

Caryn Gillen 01:34

I mean, yeah, it probably was 2019 or 2020 when we actually met. Yeah. 

Molly Claire 01:38

Yeah, yeah, something like that. So we've known each other for a while. We cross paths a little bit, but then some of my former clients had worked with you as well. And something that I heard about you and what I'm excited to share, you know, on the podcast, of course, with people is that you care about your clients. Is this true? This is the rumor that I've heard. 

Caryn Gillen 02:01

I don't just care about my clients. I actually love them. And so for a while I thought that wasn't okay to say, but now I've seen that. Me saying that opens up things for my clients to love their clients in a way that I'm like, no, there's something important about that. It's okay to love people. 

Molly Claire 02:20

Yes. And I mean, I think that in just a minute, I'm going to have Caryn, of course, introduce herself. We're going to talk about how you as a coach can build a sustainable business, make money in your business. But I just, one of the reasons that I wanted to have Caryn here on the podcast, and she's going to be teaching in my community as well, is that Caryn and I are aligned in our mission, our quest to build a business with authenticity, with having our clients best interest at heart, and really loving them at the forefront of what we do. So it's just an honor to have you here. 

Caryn Gillen 02:55

It's good to be here. Yeah, I appreciate everything you just said. 

Molly Claire 02:58

Okay, so tell everyone, who are you? What do you do? 

Caryn Gillen 03:03

I am a coach through and through. 

Molly Claire 03:06

Through and through. 

Caryn Gillen 03:07

And what I do is I help coaches create businesses that they don't have to recover from. 

Molly Claire 03:15

Mm-hmm. 

Caryn Gillen 03:16

I help coaches create businesses that work for who they are as a person and the life that they have and really create business that serves their clients themselves, their families and the communities that they live in because I don't know if everybody knows this but small businesses, 99.9% of the business in America. 

Molly Claire 03:36

Mm. 

Caryn Gillen 03:36

Our businesses are what makes this country work. We hear a lot about the big ones, right? But really it's small business that does it, right? So here we all are with these powerful tools that we get to use not only to serve our clients, but also to make our towns better, right? And so I want to help people have not just businesses that make money, but businesses that make a difference. 

Molly Claire 04:00

Yes. And, you know, as Caryn was talking and mentioning, right, you were mentioning, it serves us, it serves our families, it serves our clients, it serves our communities. And I think sometimes we can have these weird ideas in our head where it's one or the other, right? My business is either serving me or it's serving my clients as if there's kind of this competition of priorities, which is not at all true, right? It's all about bringing a service, bringing, you know, our abilities to help others, bringing everything together to truly make everyone's life and situation better. 

Caryn Gillen 04:40

Right. I mean, I kind of have the stance that like if your business isn't making your life and your client's lives better, both of those things being true, then you should just get out of business.Like if it's only benefiting your clients and your life is taking like bad turns because of it and you can't pay your bills or like go get a job. Like we don't want to harm ourselves with this work. That's not the point. 

Molly Claire 05:02

No. And I think sometimes, right, sometimes it can be like, stop the business, get a job. And sometimes it's reevaluating, right? Like, where is the mismatch here? What am I believing I'm supposed to be doing for my business or for my clients that is to my detriment? And maybe I don't have to do that thing, right? So, and also, you know, even speaking to… I've had clients that have come to me, have hired me, have joined a program. And we start checking in with who are what are your values? What do you want? And they realize they actually never wanted to have their own business, right? So I think that can exist too, where it's like, we think we're supposed to, but not everyone is really interested in having a business either. 

Caryn Gillen 05:42

And we really get a lot in coaching. I think we get swept up. It's like we want to be great coaches, we get coach training and all of a sudden everyone has a business and is talking about making a hundred thousand dollars. And so we jump on that train of shared goal and it may not be ours and it's okay if it's not. You're not a better person because you have a business and you're not a better person if you bring in six figures a year, we're all here. We're all doing life. But like where do you need to be? Let's figure that out first.

Molly Claire 06:08

Yes, that's right. So this leads us into this topic, right, because Caryn you and I have been in this coaching world for a while and I'm sure you can relate to this. I've seen so many good human beings come in they want to help they've had their own life-changing experience and they think I want to do this for other people and somehow or another they can get lost in chasing after someone else's vision or someone else's dream and they're really not pursuing their own path, right? 

Caryn Gillen 06:45

Yeah, the work that matters in the moment. 

Molly Claire 06:48

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I was just going to say, and you know, and there are so, so many individual variations of this, right? But in particular, I think it would be great to talk about people who come in because they want to be a coach and they genuinely do want it, right? This is the path for them. And then as they start trying to build a business, they're learning from people who potentially want a completely different business model than they actually want. They're learning from people who are going towards seven figures, and are looking to scale. And suddenly someone who really just wants to help people and have a simple business is now trying to use tactics that make no sense for them and then end up being burned out. Yeah. 

Caryn Gillen 07:33

Right. Yeah. And I think what's true is that there are so many great teachers and so many incredible marketers, and sometimes they're the same people who are able to sell us amazing things, sometimes at the wrong point for us. And if there's a buy now button on a website, that buy now button isn't saying, is this right for you right now? And so my hope for us as coaches, because when I see us, I literally see us in a line and there's like thousands of us off to the right and thousands of us off to the left. And here we are. We're in this amazing field that we got into because we love. 

Molly Claire 08:09

Mm-hmm 

Caryn Gillen 08:10

And I want you to stay here. 

Molly Claire 08:13

Mm-hmm. 

Caryn Gillen 08:13

But if you are a business doing a couple thousand bucks here and there, you haven't had consistency, you don't have sustainability, and you're learning tactics or tools that work for a business that is meant to scale, all that's going to do is confuse. It's going to take the limited energy and resources that you have right here to get your business going, and it's going to distract you and take your brain somewhere else. So it really takes the power out of the beginning of things. This is tough because most coaches don't come into coaching understanding business strategy and what works at different stages of business because what we're doing to get from zero to $5,000 months consistently is different than what will keep you at $10,000 months consistently, is different than what you need to have in place to have $30,000 months consistently, and is entirely different than when you want to have $80,000 months. So there's different moves to be made at every stage and people selling you stuff don't know what stage you're at, only you know that. 

Molly Claire 09:15

Mm-hmm. 

Caryn Gillen 09:16

So we have to, like, develop this discernment that no one really teaches us how to have. And that means people can kind of sell you anything. 

Molly Claire 09:24

Mm hmm. Yeah. Well, especially because I think back to when I started coaching, fell in love with coaching was just right lit up being a part of the work and having no idea how to start a business. Like I remember, it's so funny. I remember thinking, oh, niche, what is niche? What does that mean? I'm not, I'm not sure what that is. And it's like something we talk about all the time. I had no idea really about anything about building a business. And so it's kind of like it's true that there are skill gaps to fill, right? Business marketing, you know, financial coaching skills, right? Like, and so it's true that there are gaps we need to fill and it can be pretty overwhelming to discern, right? Like, where do I begin? Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about, so for coaches who are listening, who are wanting more consistency, more sustainability, I would love to have you share, and it could be both. I was going to say either strategies you would recommend or potentially mistakes that you have seen them making. So yeah, just give us a little bit of guidance in that area. 

Caryn Gillen 10:40

I think one of the first most important things to differentiate is that a coaching business is a business with an online presence, but it does not have to be an online business. 

Molly Claire 10:52

Mm hmm. 

Caryn Gillen 10:53

Right so there's all these tools and things to build a quote unquote online business and it can be a business where there's actually potentially never even any interaction between the actual business owner and the customer it could be courses whatever. 

Molly Claire 11:08

Mm-hmm. 

Caryn Gillen 11:09

And we have access to all of these online business building tools, how to make a funnel, all this stuff. It's all great. But as a coach, building a practice, starting with one-on-one clients, which is the fastest way to get to sustainability, is selling one-on-one coaching to individuals. 

Molly Claire 11:26

Mm-hmm 

Caryn Gillen 11:26

You have a relationship-based business that happens to have a website that happens to have a social media account. It does not mean that you have to have all of the things related to an online business. 

Molly Claire 11:38

Mm-hmm. 

Caryn Gillen 11:39

Yeah, we have to start with those relationships because who hires us as coaches? It's the people who know us and then the people who know us who they send to us, they're friends, right? And then the people who we've interacted with on social media and now know us and now we're in a relationship and then they hire us. It's always that relationship. 

Molly Claire 11:58

Yeah. And I just want to reiterate this and echo it and add some things as well, because in like in master coach training where the business building program that we do is focused on exactly this, right? Because it's true. What we're speaking to is the reality of starting a business and creating that consistency, because I think that oftentimes coaches can get caught up in the building of the social media or on these online things, which yes, you want to learn that. And sometimes in fact, have you seen this? I know I've certainly seen this where when new coaches are having clients sign from ways they connected in person or referrals or those kinds of things from relationships, they kind of treat it as if it's not real. 

Caryn Gillen 12:49

Right. But I'm like, no, that's the only real thing. 

Molly Claire 12:51

That's the only real thing because to your point, right, they say 92% of people trust referrals from friends or family over any other form of advertising, 92%. There's also a study that shows that 96% of people report that if they have a positive experience with their coach that they will renew, they will sign up again, 92 and 96%. For those of you listening, think about how much time, effort and energy you spend trying to get in front of more people, trying to acquire a client. It's expensive to acquire a new client. When you can have a business that is, I'm a big proponent of leading with phenomenal service and then of course building those relationships where Caryn's talking about this relationship business, it's like that's when you have a business where your ability to coach and transform others and care about people and connect with people is the very thing that allows that business to unfold and become sustainable. 

Caryn Gillen 14:01

Yeah, everything you said, exactly. 

Molly Claire 14:03

Yeah. 

Caryn Gillen 14:04

If you think about a one-on-one coach needs 24 clients a year, right? Maybe they have 12 client spots they can serve and they want to re-up one time. They've got a six month offer. So that's 24 things that they can sell a year. But if you've got, you know, that statistic of 96%, we hit that, but we don't usually hit it right away in the beginning when we're not quite sure who we're serving, people won't refer as often in the beginning, but then they will. So the average is like, you can expect half of your clients to re-sign. So that means then you only have 18 people in one year to meet, to have that sales conversation with, and to have them become clients. That is not a ton. So if I'm trying to attract, you know, a thousand people to my list or whatever, that's fine, and we should do that. We should grow our list, but also you can have conversations with 18 people a year.You probably already know the 18 people who are going to be your clients in the first year. 

Molly Claire 15:01

Yeah, and I think, you know, I want to just highlight that one of the things that I think is very useful for us to think about as coaches building our business is there are activities in our business that are quick win activities. There are activities that are more for long-term growth and there's not an exact line differentiated, right? But it's kind of like building your email list to a thousand. That's great, right? That's something that's going to be that long-term growth. If I'm focusing all of my energy on growing my list, is that going to bring in a client right now? Probably not, probably not, right? And so I love that you're putting numbers to this because all of you listening think about how few people that is right to have conversations with. 

Caryn Gillen 15:50

It's very accessible if you focus on the relationships and then you do like you're talking about relationships are short game. You're going to like meet people, they're going to know what you do. You want as many people on the planet to know what you do as possible. And then all this stuff we do for online business, keep your website updated, write some good blogs, maybe have a podcast, all that stuff. It's just good insurance and it's good nurturing the people who are there, but it's not like a website will get you clients. It's not like one great blog might get you a client. Sometimes it does, but not all the time. 

Molly Claire 16:24

Yeah, yeah. And I think the other thing I want to highlight about this, which I think is really important is, you know, when Caryn's talking about relationships, I always like to remind my coaches, because I'm guessing this is true for you too, Caryn, the coaches that come my way, that I'm sure come your way, they really are coaches at heart. They are people who want to help. They want to make a difference. Like that is where their heart is. It's not like they said, ooh, I want to find a way to make money online. Oh, I'll be a coach. Yeah, they came because, right? They love coaching. And I think that sometimes I'm curious, any of you listening, if you can relate to this, sometimes you can have some kind of way of thinking, you know, in the vein of, well, I'm a coach, but I'm not good at marketing. I'm not good at sales. And we see it as a very different skill set. And I hear that. And as a coach, we're good at caring about people, genuinely caring about people, which is selling, right? Listening to them, understanding them, right? And so when I'm working with my coaches to get these initial clients, the idea is, right? How do you create an experience when you're speaking to a group, right? Or you're building that relationship and first connecting, what you're doing is you are connecting in order to convert. Now I realize that sounds like you're just out there to convert people. And that's certainly not what I mean. But my point is that if you think about it, think about your gifts as a coach, what are you best at? Maybe loving people, noticing what people need, helping people to feel a sense of possibility to see possibility. Those are the greatest skills you can have in terms of selling people or helping people to take a step to work with you.And so I actually think as coaches, if we, if we change the language of it, we can really see that we're the best salesperson there could ever be for our clients. 

Caryn Gillen 18:36

We really are. And I think like in terms of meeting people and you say like keep connecting to convert, like another way to look at it is just leave the doors open. 

Molly Claire 18:47

Mm-hmm.

Caryn Gillen 18:48

Make a connection, make sure you reconnect and ask another question. Just keep leaving the door open to communication. Because if you want to help people, you have to be open to people. We can't meet someone and close the door and think, well, they better come find me. Hopefully they go to my website. No, we have to stay open. Like, I think good selling is just this process of being really comfortable having 45 open conversations going at the same time. And like, I'm going to help people. If I meet someone somewhere and I come across something random and I think about them, I will send it to them. It might seem kind of weird or intense, but you just never know what is going to be the thing that lands for someone. And I am always going to help someone. I am never going to hold back selling my coaching or someone else's. I have just as much fun sending people to a different coach as I do sending them to myself, to be honest. 

Molly Claire 19:44

Mm hmm. Yeah. And I think it's like there's such a magic in that it's kind of like even I think a really great way of thinking about a consultation or a mini session or whatever people do right is that first conversation is to think, I'm going to go into this conversation. And regardless of their decision to work with me or not, I'm going to bring something that's going to make their life better from this conversation. If they hire me, that's great because we can do more of it, right? But I just think there's a lot of power in that because it also keeps us in that space of leading with service and leading really with the purpose behind what we're doing. And then the money, the abundance, the growth, it just it follows. 

Caryn Gillen 20:35

Yeah, I have a little practice before I have any kind of connection call or sales call. And that's like, I have this little roller with essential oils and I roll some in my palm and I take three deep breaths and say to myself, my only job is to love them. 

Molly Claire 20:51

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. 

Caryn Gillen 20:53

So that kind of unhooks any of those like, oh, I have to do a really good offer. I need to like focus on what no, you just need to put everything down. I needed to be with the other person because something that sells coaching is that experience of somebody being with you in a way that none of your friends have ever been with you before and seeing you in a way that no one's ever seen you before. Like if that's all we give people, that's enough to sell coaching. 

Molly Claire 21:20

Yeah, it made me think of oftentimes when I'm working with my clients on selling, we kind of talk about what is it that you're great at? What is it that you're best at, right? And then whatever that word is that is selling. So like one of my clients, she's like, I'm really great at teaching, right? And so, okay, how is that selling? When you're in that consultation, how can you use that superpower of teaching, right, to help create that experience with them? Or I had another client, this is what reminded me of it when you said that is she said, I'm really good at loving people. I was like, great, right? Yeah, just like love them and that's it. So I think that's a beautiful thing. And the other thing I do want to mention though, as well, for all of you listening is I think one of the important things that we need to check in with for ourselves is this is kind of along the lines of, you know, me saying lead with service, right? Lead with helping lead with all of that and the conversions, the money, all of that follows. I feel like there's a little bit of a caveat to this. And this is that I think that we also need to take a look at how comfortable am I receiving money? How easy is it for me to ask someone if they would like to work with me to offer for them to be my client? And so I think that also because if we have some of those hang ups that we don't look at, right, where we feel guilty taking money or we're uncomfortable with certain things, then that's going to kind of muddy the waters. But if we continue to work on cleaning that up and expanding that within us, that's one, right? Just continuing to bring what we bring will result in the business that's making money. 

Caryn Gillen 23:10

Yeah. And I would like offer a question for everybody listening is what gets in the way of me selling wholeheartedly. And every single thing that comes up is an important thing for you to work on next, like put anything that comes up to the top of your to-do list. 

Molly Claire 23:26

And what I love about that is I think sometimes we can find an answer to a question like that and we write those down as if these are the problematic thoughts we need to get rid of. But what you're saying is put that on a list. Those are things you need to take a look at, work on, attend to. We have space to work with those instead of just searching for the things that are wrong in our brain that we need to eliminate. 

Caryn Gillen 23:49

Yeah, just give him a little attention. It's like the sock under the bed that looks like a monster. You just got to know it's there. 

Molly Claire 23:55

Yeah. Okay, this is great. In just a minute, I'd love for you to share any final words of wisdom for my listeners and of course where they can find you. But I would love to know from you, when you think back to when you first started your coaching business, what are some of the best things you did for yourself or for your business as you were just starting out? Because you've been 15 years now, right? You've been a business coach. Yeah. 

Caryn Gillen 24:25

Yeah, you know, what's funny is I coach for $20 a session when I first started 15 years ago. And one of those clients is still in touch. And he's referred clients to me that have paid full price now, right? Like again, relationships. I think in the beginning, I was willing to say yes to absolutely anything and everything that got me coaching, got a dollar through the door, got me some experience. And I didn't make up a whole bunch of rules about what it needed to look like, or that it had to be scalable later. Like, no, get scrappy and like, do what you need to do to get the experience that you know you need to have to feel comfortable in business. 

Molly Claire 25:07

Mm-hmm. Love it. And isn't that, okay, wait, comfortable in business. That's your membership, right? That worked out really well. I'm like, wait a minute. I'm like, that's like, ding. That's awesome. Okay, well, I want you to tell them about that in a minute. Any last words, any final advice you give, and then, of course, tell everyone where they can find you. 

Caryn Gillen 25:27

If there is anyone in your phone list that you have texted with or called in the last six months who doesn't know exactly what you do and who you help, you need to make sure that they all know within the next month. That could mean you call them and you talk and you let them know, hey, what's going on for you? How's life in this area of your life? I just want you to know I'm coaching.These are the people I help. If you know anyone, let me know. The way my business works is referrals. I want you to find all those people because that means those people are really in your life and everyone who's in your life should know what you do. So should your neighbor. 

Molly Claire 26:03

Mm-hmm, I love it, love it. Okay, Caryn, tell the people, where can they find you? What do you offer? I know you have a freebie and all of that, so. 

Caryn Gillen 26:12

Yeah, uh, you can find everything at caryn gillan.com. Cause I finally updated my website this weekend. It's amazing now again, but I do have a freebie. The two for coaches that I have are the niche cure. It's kind of like how to get really clear enough on your niche to start marketing. And it's something you can use again and again, because I think what we don't know is usually every four to seven clients, we learn more about who our ideal client is, so it's okay to be evolving your niche as you go along. So you can find that on the website. 

Molly Claire 26:42

Awesome. Awesome. And you're on Instagram, LinkedIn. 

Caryn Gillen 26:47

Yep, at Caryn Gillen and everywhere because my name is spelled weird. So I get all my own. 

Molly Claire 26:52

Awesome, I love it and of course all of this will be in the show notes. Thank you so much for being here This has been an awesome conversation 

Caryn Gillen 26:59

Yeah, thanks for having me and thanks for doing this kind of work in our field too. I think it really matters and makes it better for all of us. 

Molly Claire 27:06

Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you. It's, it's just, it's such an honor. I feel like every day, like, how do I get to work with like the best human beings on the planet? How is this? All right. Thank you so much. And thanks everyone for being here. And I'll talk with you next week.