Molly Claire 00:45

Hey, everyone, I am thrilled to share this episode with you where we're having a very important conversation. Margo Fordonski, one of my Master Coaches and I, around grief and how we can support one another and our communities when the unexpected happens. Before we dive into that conversation, I want to make sure that you all know that the podcast is indeed shifting. Next week, I'm going to tell you even more about this. And then the following week, it will be the new and improved version of the content I'm bringing to you and talking about the four fundamentals of lasting change and how they apply to every single one of us as human beings. So stay tuned for that. And I want to make sure that you all know that life coach and leadership training and certification is open. This is where I teach you the four fundamentals of lasting change. If you are a coach and you're ready to add this methodology and skill set to your expertise, that is perfect. If you are a professional and entrepreneur who's wanting to understand how to implement change for you and those you're mentoring, maybe you're wanting to add coaching to what you're doing, this is perfect for you. And of course, if you are wanting to dive into the world of coaching and you want to have a solid foundation, this would be perfect for you. So go ahead and check the link in the show notes or go to mollyclaire.com. I would love, love, love to mentor you this fall in implementing incredible changes for you and those you are surrounded with. All right. Get ready for a very important conversation with master coach, Margo Fordonski around grief and support within our communities. Hello and welcome everybody to a special episode of the podcast today. As many of you know, this is one of the last of the podcast before we do our shift, our rebrand. And I thought, what better thing to do than to have a real heartfelt conversation around the needs that we all have as human beings that we have in our communities. And in particular today, we are focusing on the recent flooding in Texas and how it has affected communities there. And not only are we talking about that community and how it is affecting those human beings, but we're going to have a conversation today about the grief that all of us experience among our communities. And this is one of the ongoing things in life. So that's the topic today. I'm thrilled to be bringing you Margo Fordonski. Hi, Margo.

Margo Fordonski 03:26

It's so wonderful to be here. I'm so thrilled that you asked me to come and talk about this really hard, but really important topic we all at some point experience.

Molly Claire 03:38

We all experience often, right? More than what? We're going to experience grief over and over again in our lives. And I'll just tell you all why I have Margo here. So Margo is, I'm so honored to say she's one of my master coaches, but Margo is a really gifted coach. She is a trained grief educator as well. Of course, in master coach training, we study grief and Margo brings her own journey, the loss of two of her own children and many more experiences where life has been the teacher for Margo in grief. And so I just, I'm so, so happy to be able to bring Margo's brilliance and wisdom to each of you as we talk about not only grief and loss, but how we can support each other within it. So yeah, so yeah, so Margo. So let's first talk about those of you listening. We all know that tragedies happen in communities, right? Natural disasters, a whole range of things can happen, right? And whether it is the loss of entire families, entire communities, or one individual, we are all affected by grief. So as we're talking really specifically about the flooding in Texas and what that's meant for this community, as you're all listening, I want you to think about what this means for you and how can you learn from this and understand how to navigate grief and how to support others. So having said all of that, Margo, let's talk a little bit about the impact of a community tragedy and how that really can affect people when you have a like a concentration of loss at once.

Margo Fordonski 05:28

Right, right. You know, the definition of grief is a change we didn't want. And we think of grief as the loss of a person, of a loved one. But in situations like this, with a very, you know, targeted area, that a big event happened with multiple casualties. You know, there's so much other losses that everyone is affected, you know, affected by, you know, homes, possessions, loss of safety, right? Yes.

Molly Claire 06:05

Yes. It's such a drastic change, right? Thinking about, and I know right now the current numbers, and I hate to even reduce it to numbers, but 134 is the current death toll, and those missing is now just under 100, but still missing. And I want to just highlight that there are other places where the numbers are much larger, but the numbers don't really matter, right? It's loss. It's collective loss.

Margo Fordonski 06:33

Correct. And so, you know, sometimes I think people question because like I'm in Southern California, you know, why is this affecting me so right? And it's, I think this collective, our humanity, you know, we had our fires at the end of the year last year. And so this does deeply, deeply affect us and we feel very helpless on how to help others, how to attend to what we're feeling and we can be really dismissive of, well, I didn't live there. This didn't happen to me. Why am I feeling right now? And so I just think this conversation is just so important to validate the grief that everyone's feeling.

Molly Claire 07:23

Yeah, and you know, I want to speak to something else because as all of you are listening, it's very normal that that we can relate to what Margo is sharing here, which is this collective grief and almost wondering, wondering question or questioning or even judging ourselves for feeling the grief we are, if, for example, I'm feeling grief and sadness, and yet someone close to me actually lost their child, I could have this, well, who am I to feel this way, right? Their situation is worse than what I must be feeling. So I think there can be judgment on that side. And then the other thing that I think many of us can relate to is maybe even guilt for not feeling more emotions around something or not feeling more grief, right? Because the fact of the matter, I know Margo and I were talking about this before we started recording. I mean, right now, there are tragedies going on everywhere around the world, right? And it would be impossible for us to be totally connected with and deeply emotionally invested in every tragedy happening. And so I think we also have to recognize that it's also normal. It's okay. And we don't have to judge ourselves if we're not more deeply affected by everything going on around us, because we don't have the capacity as human beings.

Margo Fordonski 08:55

Right. But what can also happen with these events is it almost brings up our old wounds. Although you may not be directly affected by something, something about what happened can really bring up things from your past that make you kind of go back to that place and, you know, that's just so normal.

Molly Claire 09:22

Yeah. It is. And I think it can also surprise us, right? Like just as Margo and I were talking before we started recording and we were talking a little about just the passage of time, right? I know everyone listening here, you can relate to, you know, any loss that you've experienced, how it changes over time. And as we were talking about this, I started talking about the loss of my own mom and I started getting tearful, right? And it's been, I mean, next month, it will be how many years she passed in 2001. It's been a long time. And yet these conversations, they bring up those old, those old griefs, hurts, wounds.

Margo Fordonski 10:01

Exactly, exactly. And judging yourself and I think that's what makes us so beautiful in our humanity too, when we can feel deeply because we loved so deeply.

Molly Claire 10:15

Yeah, that's right. And in just a minute, we're going to talk about some really practical guidance that Margo is going to give all of us here. We're going to talk about ways we can support others in the short term, ways we can support them in the long term. So we're going to get specific, but before we do, something that I wanted to bring up Margo and just talk with our listeners about. So when, right, when we experience a loss, Margo, when you've experienced loss in your life, and when I've experienced loss, and everyone kind of, when gathers around, right, and there's this flooding of support initially, and then everyone moves on. And the griever can feel kind of like, wait a minute, how can everyone move on, like almost like we're trying to get time to hold still so people can give this the attention and the importance that it deserves. So there can be a frustration in that. And also, there can be as a griever, that sense at a certain point of, I should be moving on faster, right? So it's this judgment we have around the pace at which we should, you know, quote unquote, like get over it. So I'd love to know some of your thoughts on that. Yeah, for my listeners, whether they're, you know, facing this, this recent tragedy in Texas, or any, any kind of loss in their life.

Margo Fordonski 11:42

Yeah. Well, I, you know, I first want to start with, you know, there's no right or wrong way to grief. And what I have found is every person's grief is unique to that person and that loss. And, you know, I can, I've lost my mother at a young age. I've lost two children, one shortly after birth, one after a very long illness, I lost my father. And each of those griefs affected me differently. And it's not because I loved one of them more or differently, right? You know, but each relationship and then the loss of that relationship, right, is unique. And so my grieving process looked different just within me as a human being and these different. And for me, often, right, or for most grievers, you know, the loss of their loved one of their person, right, their world kind of stops, right? Yeah. Yeah. And, and, you know, in this 24-hour news cycle life we live in and the social media and things are moving at the speed of light, I think others expect they go back to their life and ours has been profoundly changed. Right. And we too, I think in this instant, you know, gratification and things changing so quickly, that's where we wonder, like, oh my gosh, shouldn't I be better? I'm still crying. It's been six weeks. And, you know, that's actually so, so soon. And yeah, so compassionate and understanding, you know, but other people, their lives start back up and we're kind of left with our new reality or new normal. Often, you know, in the early part, you're kind of in shock and don't even have access to your feelings. And so these are just starting to come on board. Yeah. It gets really quiet and you know, you're kind of left alone to figure out all the help, you know, I was mentioning to you too, right? Like even the news coverage here in, you know, California has moved on and I've seen the updates that I was seeing two weeks ago.

Molly Claire 14:11

Right, right. And you know, as Margo's talking, I mean, this is why, because Margo is, she is a grief coach and understandably so, right, with your experience. And then of course, leaning into this training that, you know, the many trainings you've done. And it, but it just, it just reminds me of what an important space grief is for us to have support. Because the other thing is, think about this. So within a loss, there are so many small losses, right? We can think about like for you, Margo, right? The loss of your child. And not only is it missing this human being, but it's the loss of what you had hoped for them. It's the loss of how much you enjoyed that mother-son relationship. Like there are so many threads to this. And I just think that we need to be so gentle with ourselves and so gentle and supportive with others as they're grieving. Because grief is complex and it's nuanced and it does take time. And I think we need to be careful about judging ourselves that we should either move past it more quickly or being scared to move on as well, right? Again, there's this tension of like so much judgment, so much judgment. So yeah, this is such an important conversation. Yeah. Margo, tell me this. So I know that, so for our listeners who in particular are maybe wondering, okay, I want to help, let's imagine, right? That someone is in a community where they've experienced loss or they have someone close to them that has experienced loss. I know you hear things like this all the time. Some of the things you said are people say, I want to help, but I don't know how, right? It's awkward to speak up. What's too much? What's too little? And so when people are unsure, let's talk a little bit about some of these practical tips that you have, especially for the beginning stages of supporting someone who's experienced loss.

Margo Fordonski 16:21

Yes. I kind of look at it, there's the early days, which is like zero to six weeks, and that's not a hard rule, but typically that's when the loss happens, there's a lot of details that need to be handled, maybe a lot of unknowns still in what's going on, perhaps a service, perhaps traveling to a service. And during that time is typically when people are really leaning in, everyone is there and they're to support the family and to be there for the services. And then I have kind of the long-term support, which is really after the six weeks when everybody kind of goes home, goes back to work, goes back to their life. And then this is the road where the help is fewer and far between. And this is where I feel like someone that you really love that's going through this, this is where you can really, really make a difference in their grief journey.

Molly Claire 17:29

Mmm, yeah, yeah.

Margo Fordonski 17:30

This isn't going to be everyone, you know, it's gonna be a few, you know, a few people who really lean into this and want to do this, and a long haul. And so things are kind of different. And what I have found now as people in my life are going through loss, I want to be that person for the long haul. Yeah, I'm not feeling is not it's as necessary for me to jump in to the immediate loss. Yeah, there are people to do that. And when I know my heart and my gift set is I'm going to be that person that's going to focus on the rest of their life and how it can be there and what matters.

Molly Claire 18:16

I love that. That's beautiful. I love that you're noticing what your gifts are. And I think actually it's important for those of you listening to think about this as well, because we could exhaust ourselves by trying to fill every role at every time for people, right? And that's not what this is about. This is really about, you know, what can we do and what are the things, what are the ways that make sense for me to support someone? Yeah. And you know, as you were talking, Margo, I was thinking back to, I sometimes have thought about when that initial loss happens. Like I remember at one point calling it like a prayer bubble. It feels like, okay, I'm in this time where like everyone's praying for me, everyone's there and you have this like cushion around you, not to mention you're a little bit in shock, right? You're trying to process, you're trying to deal with funeral arrangements, all of this. And then it feels like a little bit of a pop of the prayer bubble, right? Where there's like a little bit of the, the lessening. So I want to talk about both of these. And, before we get into that long-term space, which is of course a super power and gift for you, let's talk about these early stages since that's what's happening now, right? We're in the early stages here in this community in Texas. And we're all bound to face those early stages with someone. So what are the, I know that you mentioned before we started recording three specific tips you have, right?

Margo Fordonski 19:39

Right, right. You know, my first one is do, don't ask. You know, instead of saying, let me know if you need anything. Like a griever doesn't know what they need, right? They're in. And so something like I'm bringing dinner on Thursday, would you like Italian? Or would you like soup? You know, and that is an easier decision for them to make versus like, no, we're good. So not open-ended. And then another one that was so helpful for me was when someone said, I'm heading to the grocery store. What are three things I can grab for you?

Molly Claire 20:27

So directed, right? No decision, no option, no health is optional. If someone says they don't want help, okay, that's one thing, right? But to just assume and take the lead on that. Do, don't ask.

Margo Fordonski 20:39

Right, and so that is simple and is oh so helpful because I know for me when people say like if you need anything, I never call, I never seem to come up with something but when someone asks me that, it's like, oh, I really could use an extra carton of eggs and if I don't have to now get in the car and go do that, that'd be great. And then two, it's creating safety.

Molly Claire 21:07

So number one is do, don't ask. Now we're moving to the number two tip.

Margo Fordonski 21:15

Number two is create safety. And that means saying things like, you don't have to pretend with me, you know, I'm not afraid of your tears, you know.

Molly Claire 21:25

And how often do we apologize for crying? I still do it.

Margo Fordonski 21:31

I do all the time. And when someone is crying, I think our instinct is to get them to stop crying right away. You know, our job isn't to fix the tears and get the tears to stop. It's for them to feel safe that if they want to cry, we can handle and sit with them while they cry.

Molly Claire 21:57

Yeah, being with them in the tears. And I want to add something to this because crying activates the parasympathetic nervous system. Crying is healing, crying is necessary. And so I love this, you know, I mean, and I think something that this requires all of us to continue to do is become more comfortable with some tears, right? Because the tears and as Margo's saying, when we can be a safe space for someone to be able to cry and release, what a gift for their healing.

Margo Fordonski 22:34

Right. I call it like sitting on the bench. That was a term I learned, you know, someone willing to sit on the bench with you, you know, and, and not be scared away and not trying to fix it. And, you know, and if you're a griever and you're having trouble crying, you know, simple things, cause it's such like a, it's an emotional release too. It's like a little valve and when you can let yourself get a little bit of that out. And so if you're finding like resistance to that, even going in the shower and taking a couple minutes in the shower, you know, by yourself and letting it come out or going in the car and screaming into a towel in a car where nobody can hear you and like kind of getting some of that out in the valve, right. But just being, we're so uncomfortable and we want to fix and stop someone. And when you can be safety for someone to let them just be who they are and let that out. It is so helpful.

Molly Claire 23:44

It really is. And I want to say one more thing about this before we move on to number three. So within creating safety and as Margo, as you're talking, I'm thinking about, I know in my own experience, sometimes I struggle to cry by myself. And so, like, I have a friend who sometimes I'll say, Hey, can you, will you cry with me? Like, I just talked to you. I will cry because I know I need to. And they get stuck otherwise. And sometimes even watching a movie that will help bring up, you write those feelings and it's like, well, why would I want to bring up those feelings? But as we know, if we don't process those emotions, they get stuck and we can't, we can't really ignore them one way or another, they're going to show up. So I love this, love this creating safety to allow space for the emotions and the tears.

Margo Fordonski 24:34

And in that safety container, I just want to close with saying, like, talk about your loved one as much or as little as you want. And I'll listen, because often they just need to, you know, to say their name, to tell a story, tell what happened, tell about their last time they were with them, whatever's kind of fun, but being in a space where they can really just, whatever comes and just listening. And again, the not fixing, grievers need witnessing, someone to just witness and be present with them. So helpful, and especially in this early…

Molly Claire 25:20

Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, it can be so easy. Some things that we've just been taught as a society and think are good things to say are the opposite of creating safety, right? Things like they're in a better place. Things like look on the bright side, right? These kind of things that are the opposite of what we need.

Margo Fordonski 25:38

You know, another one in that category is you're so strong. You know, we think we mean it as a compliment and it can feel very invalidating.

Molly Claire 25:51

Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. So true. And I, oh my gosh, I'm thinking about so many, we won't get on that tangent, but even that phrase, I know so many times, like, because especially as people that present as strong, right, it can feel, it can feel like we're being missed when that's what is said instead of being with us in what's hard. Oh, amazing. Okay. So number two, creating safety, understanding what that means. Okay. How about number three?

Margo Fordonski 26:26

So, and number three, and again, this may or may not be your gift set. It may or may not be the right relationship, but handling the details. In this early part, there's so many logistics going on. It could be insurance, funeral, the other kids. And so offering to help with making calls, or organizing a meal train, or errands, caring for their pets, or doing their laundry, or carpooling their other kids, and arranging those type of logistics, that can be so helpful. And it kind of ties back into that, do, don't ask. And not everybody is that person, recognizing if you're the relationship that you have with somebody, those are some of the really practical, tangible things that you can do to help.

Molly Claire 27:33

Yeah, yeah, this is brilliant. And I think that, you know, as we move forward to talking about the long term with supporting others in their loss in their grief, you know, the things will continue to talk about will also be relevant and conceptually right in those early stages. But I think that the bottom line is, or I guess one of the takeaways as you're listening to this, and you're with someone in those early stages that don't be afraid to show up, don't be afraid to engage, say something because I think sometimes we're afraid to say something because we think it's going to make the things worse for someone, but we need to say something and be there.

Margo Fordonski 28:17

Yeah.

Molly Claire 28:17

Yeah. Okay, Margo. So obviously not a hard deadline, not like, okay, it's six weeks, you move here. But generally speaking, when we're talking about the long haul, what do you have to say to people about being that steady presence long term?

Margo Fordonski 28:39

Yes, so this is the part, like I said, I have recognized, I know there's such a need in this because I experienced it in my own grief journey that I know that that's an area of opportunity that I think a lot of people who have a loved one who's grieving don't realize how they can come in now and walk alongside somebody and support them for the long haul. Yeah, in grief, right? There's not an end destination. It's not a year after year two, and it will evolve, but this is something that I carry with me now for the rest of my life. I'm over 10 years out from my Andrew passing away, and many of the things I'm going to share right now, there are people in my life that still do this for me, and it still just makes me feel supported and cared for, and that Andrew was here, and he mattered, and he wasn't forgotten, and I've never forgotten. So these really are really simple, practical things that really are lifelong if you have someone in your life who is grieving the loss of someone they love. Yeah. Yeah. And the first one, do you want me just to jump in? Yeah, yeah. The first one is marking your calendar of dates that would be important to your friend or family who is grieving a loved one. That's, for me, my child's birthday, the day he died, the day he died was diagnosed. Back to school was really tough. Yeah, right, right. Mother's Day was really tough, and marking those dates and then reaching out, and it can be so simple. It can be a card in the mail. It can be a text, a simple text saying, thinking of you and Andrew today, I remember that with you, and that list of people who have done that has gotten smaller and smaller as the years have gone on, and they still just touch me so deeply, and I always write back, oh, thank you for remembering. This means so much to me. It's so precious when somebody remembers his birthday.

Molly Claire 31:16

And it can be so small right? I know as you're talking like I hear from my mom's siblings every year on on her birthday sharing stories like one time I got this email and it was like so my mom's she went by Mimi like I know a lot of grandmas go by Mimi but actually she went by Mimi like always it was it was her nickname and her that's nickname and name that was what she went by and so I remember my uncle sent me an email that was memories like memories it was kind of this play on words and it was just all these amazing memories and it really it's so meaningful to feel as though their spirit is alive and well.

Margo Fordonski 31:59

And you know, as we're doing this talk right now, I get to see you and your face lighting up just saying that. It just shows you how powerful and how easy it is for us to give that to somebody right? And so just simple, you know, reaching out on those days and remembering is just so, so powerful and meaningful and so easy for us to do. Another one. Number two is using the child's name or your loved one. Just for you know, parents who have lost children, you know saying names... The example you just gave of a story and I'm assuming that several of the things on there you had never heard before

Molly Claire 32:58

Yeah, it's a mix. It's like things I remember and things I'd never heard before.

Margo Fordonski 33:03

And so just such such a gift and and it can be you know pictures that you find now things are going to be more and more digital which makes it even easier just last year one of Andrew's nurses from back in nineteen eighty nine like that's how long ago I had a picture of him sitting at the nurse's station one night with her. And she mailed it to me and had come across this and I just you know lovely to have that and that she saw it and thought of me and wanted me to have it. I've had people text me and say I saw you know a butterfly today and it made me think of Andrew or this song played today and i remember being in class and you know he loved that and so any of those little things where I get to hear his name. are so meaningful because we just don't get to do that anymore.

Molly Claire 34:07

Right, right. And like you were saying, I know before we started recording, I think this is so worth mentioning is like, hopefully I'm not getting ahead of myself with this, but that hearing his name, like you don't hear it at the grocery store anymore. Oh, you're Andrew's mom.

Margo Fordonski 34:23

Right, right. Yeah. And so when somebody runs into me, that was part of our life then. And I've had them, you know, oh, Andrew's mom, you know, and it's like, all that in so long. And it may bring tears to my eyes. But it's beautiful.

Molly Claire 34:42

It's good. And I think sometimes in the long haul, right, that long-term support, we can be afraid of bringing up painful memories for someone.

Margo Fordonski 34:51

Like we think we're gonna upset them or remind them and it's like, oh, believe me, I think about this all the time. You know, you're not hurting them and you're not reminding them of something that's not front of mind for them every minute of every day, right? And then another big one is number three for me is checking in and checking in without needing a response. And in this day where we do tend to communicate by text, you know, just getting a text like I'm still here, you know, or, you know, I'm here for the hard days and the random Tuesdays is so important. I want you to know, right? I want you to know, I'm still here on the bench, you know, I haven't gone, you know, and just don't write me back, you know.

Molly Claire 35:48

Yeah, no need to respond, just want you to know, yeah.

Margo Fordonski 35:53

I'll get random texts, you know, hope you're having a great, you know, Thursday today, you know, I'm thinking of you. That's so powerful, you know.

Molly Claire 36:03

Yeah, it is. And I think that, you know, one of the things that this is bringing to mind for me as we're getting close to the end of our episode is that one of the main things is don't be afraid to show up. Don't be afraid to be present, right? Don't be afraid to connect to say something. Right. So I think that's the... I think that's one of the biggest reasons why we don't support more is we're afraid.  

Margo Fordonski 36:33

I would like to offer this too. There would be times somebody would reach out to me and invite me to something or whatever. And I really tried to say back, I can't do it this time. And I would always say, but please ask me again. No, not today, but please ask me again. And you would be surprised how many people never asked again. And as time went on, if they had, I would have been ready to do that thing. That's another thing is to keep coming back because not everybody would even have the presence to say, but ask me next time. And so even with me doing that, people felt life kept going on. And so it kind of ties into my last point, which was just be a steady presence. And grief, as we know, can be so isolating. And just to be the person, I just want to challenge people. Be the person that stays and just offers consistent, low pressure companionship. I had people that I had a walking date with. Every Tuesday we would meet at nine o'clock and just go for a walk. And sometimes I never said anything. They would just tell me what was going on, but just the moving my body and knowing that I had someone to go meet on Mondays at nine o'clock. And I got some fresh air. Other times would start laughing and the laughing would turn into something. But just being that consistent, steady presence. And if it's no the first time, hear my voice saying, but ask again. Because maybe this month isn't a good month, but a month or two from now, they're going to be ready.

Molly Claire 38:47

Yeah.

Margo Fordonski 38:48

Yes.

Molly Claire 38:50

I love that. And along with that, I think also potentially because many won't have the presence like you Margo to say, but ask me next time as the support person as asking when someone says no, thank you or not this time, you know, an extension of is there anything else right now that I can do to support you? What else would be supportive, right? So that we're continuing to keep that door open. And just one more thing that I want to offer up from me personally is that feels to me like a light bulb moment for me in this conversation and invitation to me. And I want to offer up this invitation to my listeners as well. And then I want to have any final thoughts from you Margo and of course, let people know about where they could find you if they wanted to learn more because I mean, Margo was just the absolute go to in terms of grief support. But you know, as you're talking, it's like one of my friends has come to mind. She's a business colleague and she lost her son years ago and I never knew her son. I met her, you know, after he was gone. And as we're having this conversation, I'm realizing that there's been a voice in my head almost like, well, I'm not really allowed to comment. It's not my place to say anything because I didn't really know him. That would be weird for me to do that. And I will say that this last year when I saw a post on his birthday, I did say something to her. And now we're having this conversation. I'm glad that I did. And it's a reminder to me, like, and for all of us, like, don't be afraid. It doesn't matter if you haven't said anything in the past, if you didn't know this person, all the reasons that we think that we don't have a place to support this person, we can always be a support to somebody, always, always.

Margo Fordonski 40:51

Yes. And I think, you know, we moved after our son died. And I have a whole community of people that did not know Andrew. But they know me. And as I've shared about Andrew, those are the people that check in with me. Yeah, I love that. And they didn't need to know him, right? Right. Right. And they've picked up the mantle, because I didn't want to live somewhere. And this big part of who I am isn't here with me. And I didn't want those people not to know about him. And so, yes, I like introduce myself, right? They knew that I had a son that's no longer with us and briefly what happened. And I love when they asked me about him. And so yeah, I love that point. It's not just if you knew them, if you know the griever, you're the perfect person.

Molly Claire 41:49

Yeah, I love that. Well, Margo, thank you so much for sharing your own story and experience and vulnerability and especially, you know, just being willing to give this really powerful guidance. Any final words that you have to share? And of course, yeah, any final words will do that first.

Margo Fordonski 42:12

Oh, I just I think it's so, you know, for something that's going to happen to all of us. We're so grief, illiterate, right? And you know, back in the day, there was more time set aside, you wore certain clothing, right? And not that when the year was over, and you could take your black garb off and go back, right, that you were over, but there really was intention to set time aside. We've really gotten away from that. And so I feel the more we can normalize grief, and normalize how to help. And you know, I specifically work with moms who have lost children, and normalize needing help and strategies, how to grow and thrive, and to suffer less, how you're going to carry it forward for the rest of your life. You know, I want to be able to offer hope that there is life and a beautiful life that's available even after going through the unimaginable. My connection, I used to think my connection with Andrew needed to be through the pain of his loss. And it's actually through my love. And that love is going to go on forever. And so Andrew comes with me all and everything I do into this new beautiful life that I'm having to live without his physical presence here. It helped me release some of the pain I was carrying and allowed me just to focus on the love of my son and the miracle of the time I had with him, you know, it's just so precious to me. Yeah, yeah.

Molly Claire 44:11

Margo, thank you so much. Where can people find out more about your work?

Margo Fordonski 44:15

I have margoordonski.com and on there I do have a free little resource that is wonderful for a new griever and really tools to anchor you throughout your grief process and so if you have somebody that you know who is grieving this could be something for you to grab for them which would be awesome but margofordonsky.com and then I'm also on Instagram margofordonskylifecoach.

Molly Claire 44:48

Yeah. And check, definitely check out Margo's Instagram. I just, I see your stuff pop up on my Instagram every time I'm on there and they're just really beautiful reminders and such a, you know, just kind of going back to what you said about us being so grief illiterate. I feel like there's that education there to help us all understand it a little bit more. So Margo, thank you so much. I appreciate it. And thank you everyone for being that here, you know, share this with others so we can support each other in the best possible way through the many, many griefs and losses that we experienced in life. And I look forward to talking with you all next week.