masterful coach



masterful coach



Breaking Free from People Pleasing to Empower Your Life and Coaching Practice with Hailey Magee

assertiveness training boundary setting business coaching coaching skills emotional intelligence emotional resilience emotional safety emotional vulnerability empowerment entrepreneurship female entrepreneur healthy relationships life balance life coaching overcoming people pleasing people pleasing personal development personal fulfillment personal growth personal integrity professional development relationship dynamics self-advocacy self-awareness self-care self-empowerment self-expression self-worth setting boundaries May 01, 2024

Follow the show:

Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Spotify | iHeart Radio | Amazon Music | RSS

Welcome back to another insightful episode of "The Masterful Coach" with your host, Molly Claire. This week, we dive into conversation with Hailey Magee, a coach who specializes in helping individuals break free from people-pleasing patterns and master self-advocacy.

In this episode, Hailey shares her expertise on why people pleasing isn't about making others happy but is an outdated survival tactic that can harm our present lives. She discusses how this often leads to self-abandonment and the false belief that meeting others' expectations is more important than our own needs.

One point Hailey makes is about the misnomer of people-pleasing. She explains, "People pleasing is really not about pleasing people. It's how we learned to stay safe... emotionally, socially, materially." This idea opens up a discussion about the importance of understanding our own behaviors and the underlying motivations that drive them.

Molly and Hailey explore the nuanced differences between being kind and people pleasing, where kindness comes from a place of choice and generosity, whereas people pleasing is driven by obligation and the desire for validation. They also touch on the concept of influence versus control in relationships, emphasizing the power of clear and direct communication to foster healthier interpersonal dynamics.

The conversation also includes practical strategies for setting boundaries and making requests, highlighting how to maintain personal integrity without falling into the trap of endless accommodation. Hailey's perspective on boundaries versus requests is particularly enlightening, as she points out that "boundaries are not tools to get more of something from someone but are about setting our terms of engagement for these relationships."

For all coaches and individuals struggling with people-pleasing tendencies, this episode offers valuable insights and actionable advice to start reclaiming your power. Be sure to catch Hailey's words of wisdom and delve deeper into self-advocacy with her upcoming book, "Stop People Pleasing and Find Your Power."

Thanks for tuning in. See you in the next episode, where we continue to empower you on your coaching journey!

Guest Bio

Hailey Magee is a certified coach who helps people around the world break the people-pleasing pattern and master the art of self-advocacy. Her debut book, Stop People Pleasing and Find Your Power, will be released by Simon & Schuster in 2024.

Hailey’s refreshingly nuanced perspectives on boundary-setting and self-advocacy have captured the attention of millions on social media. Certified by Erickson International, she has worked one-on-one with over 300 clients, and her public talks and virtual workshops have welcomed tens of thousands of participants. She has written for Newsweek and The Gottman Institute, and has facilitated corporate workshops in partnership with WeWork, Women In Music, and a variety of other companies and organizations.

Hailey is dedicated to offering clear, research-supported strategies for change, helping recovering people pleasers rediscover not only their power and agency, but their pleasure, joy, and sense of wonder. She received her BA from Brandeis University in Massachusetts and currently resides in Seattle, WA.

Instagram: @haileypaigemagee


Stop People Pleasing and Find Your Power

Connect and Resources

Create A Killer Program

This interactive, workshop-style, 6 week Masterclass is what the coaches in this episode did. It teaches you:

  • How the right program can fuel your marketing and sales efforts
  • 3 key ingredients to effective coaching programs
  • How to build a program that will set you apart as an expert

Connect with Molly Claire

Master Coach Training 2024 REGISTRATION IS NOW OPEN.

Masterful Coach Foundations + The 10K Accelerator Method: Designed for mission-centered Life Coaches who are ready to build a profitable and purposeful business?

Have a question or thoughts about the podcast? Don’t hesitate to contact Molly at:

Molly’s book: The Happy Mom Mindset:

Please help Molly reach even more like-minded individuals! Simply post a review of the podcast on your favorite platform (or two). It is so appreciated.

Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Spotify | iHeart Radio | Amazon Music | RSS

Full Episode Transcript:

Voice Over [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the Masterful Coach podcast with Molly Claire. If you're a coach who's ready to impact more lives, make more money, and create a life you love, you're in exactly the right place. Get the support you deserve as a female entrepreneur, master your coaching skills, grow your ideal business, and honor your priorities in your personal life. Are you in? Let's get started with your host, bestselling author, and master life and business coach, Molly Claire.

Molly Claire [00:00:35]:
All right. I'm so excited to have you on the podcast, Haley. Welcome.

Hailey Magee [00:00:41]:
Thank you for having me. I'm stoked to be here.

Molly Claire [00:00:43]:
This is so exciting for me because as I told all of you and Haley as well when she came on here, I mean, I love following you on Instagram. I cannot tell you how many times I have sent my clients to your page to read. So any of you, if you don't follow her, I know you'll have, you'll tell them where to find you, and everything will be in the show notes. But truly, the content that she puts out there is so impactful. So I'm really excited to have you here, and let's just dive in and you can share all your wisdom.

Hailey Magee [00:01:15]:
I'm ready. Okay, good.

Molly Claire [00:01:17]:
Okay, so, tell my listeners, what do you do and why do you love it?

Hailey Magee [00:01:22]:
Okay, so, I am a coach. Surprise, surprise. And I work with folks on breaking the people-pleasing pattern and mastering the art of self-advocacy. Which, to me means not only setting boundaries, which is such a big part of this, but speaking up about what we need, asking people to meet us where we need to be met, and designing our lives in a way that feels good to us. So that's what I do as a coach.

Molly Claire [00:01:47]:
It's so powerful. And I know that she's going to be sharing with you also that she has a book that is up and coming, or out when this podcast airs. So all of that will be in there. But what I love about the work that you do is I feel like it takes into account the reasons why it really is challenging for us to advocate for ourselves and to speak up, because I think people pleasing can have this, such a negative connotation, right? Or can, we can kind of shame or blame ourselves for it, but there are reasons behind it, and you speak to those.

Hailey Magee [00:02:22]:
Oh, my God. It's so important to understand that piece of the puzzle, because before we understand where this pattern comes from, it's so easy to be so hard on ourselves. I spent so many years being, like, looking at my friends who effortlessly said no and spoke up and set boundaries. And I would watch them just like, "How do you do this? Why is this so hard for me?" But ultimately, people pleasing - I say this a lot in my posts - it's really not about pleasing people. It's a misnomer. People pleasing is about.

Hailey Magee [00:02:49]:
It's how we learn to stay safe. It's an outdated coping mechanism that at some point in the past kept us safe, not just physically, necessarily, but emotionally, socially, materially safe. And it takes a lot of time to learn that what kept us safe in the past might be wreaking havoc on our lives in the present.

Molly Claire [00:03:07]:
Yes. And I think, I know we'll speak to this much more, but I just want to say that I know a lot of times for people that struggle with setting boundaries, advocating for themselves, standing up for what they need - not that I would ever fall into any of these categories - I'm struggling with any of this ever, except most of my life. But I think that, you know, as you address those things, that I think it can be really hard for us to feel like we're not being rude. Right? How do we do this and still feel that we are the kind, loving, empathetic human being that we want to be? And I just, I think you address all of that so well.

Hailey Magee [00:03:46]:
So, it's tough, right? Because we don't want to be rude. And I often feel like for the recovering people pleaser, our rude barometer is slightly skewed. Like, we could set the kindest, most gentle boundary. And inside we still feel like we're being rude. So it takes some time to readjust that needle to reflect reality and to remember that being clear, as Brene Brown says, like, clear is kind. Right? Like, we help people out when we're direct and clear about what we want.

Molly Claire [00:04:15]:
Yes. Yes.

Molly Claire [00:04:16]:
And I'd love to know. I know you love what you do. Why? What is it about this work that you love so much?

Hailey Magee [00:04:23]:
God, I really feel like it's the process of watching people step out of lives that were designed for them and beginning to feel confident that they can design their own lives on their own terms. I think I felt this personally in my past when I was people pleasing. I didn't feel like I really had a say in the direction of my life. How I spent my time, what I gave, who I gave to. It was all preordained because I said yes to everything, because I didn't know how to say no.

Molly Claire [00:04:54]:

Hailey Magee [00:04:54]:
And so in this work, like, watching people, everything from, like, leaving unhealthy relationships and finding love, leaving toxic work environments and doing the things like- And being able to say, this doesn't work for me. It's just so rewarding to watch people begin to value themselves enough to make those decisions.

Molly Claire [00:05:15]:
Oh, I love that. Valuing themselves enough. I mean, I can for sure say that that's been a part of my experience. The more I've given myself space to value who I am and know who I am and connect, it gives you a little bit more of a foundation to be able to advocate for what you want in your life. For sure.

Hailey Magee [00:05:33]:
100%. I often feel that's, like, the underspoken base level of all of this is like, it's going to be really hard to express your needs or set a boundary if deep down you don't believe you're worthy of it. And so that's where I think, for many of us, this work gets really deep.

Molly Claire [00:05:49]:
Yes. Okay. So what I want to dive into today is something that I know is really a specialty for you, which is bringing some of these concrete concepts and talking about the nuances. Right. And so I'm just going to hit on a couple of these that I know are covered in your book. Let's talk a little bit about kindness and people pleasing. Are they the same? Are they different? Tell us about them.

Hailey Magee [00:06:16]:
Yes. This is, like, one of my favorite juicy things. Because just like you said earlier, right, when we stop people pleasing, everyone's like, "Oh, but I'm going to be rude. I'm going to be mean." But kindness and people pleasing are not the same. And I think there are some really key reasons that are key things that distinguish the two. Let's start with people pleasing, because that's the one that a lot of us are coming from.

Hailey Magee [00:06:36]:
Yeah, truly, like, with people pleasing, you can tell you're people pleasing because there are a couple different attitudes that underlie people pleasing. One of the first ones is a sense of obligation. It's not like you feel you have choices. It's like I'm giving you this or saying yes, because I feel like I have to. And that's a very different experience from giving, from just the goodness of our hearts.

Molly Claire [00:06:57]:
Mm hmm. Yeah.

Hailey Magee [00:06:59]:
Another key attitude is transactionality. So I'm giving you this so that you give me something back. And the giving back isn't always a material thing. Right. But it might be, "I'm giving you this so that you keep me safe. I'm giving you this so that you're nice to me. I'm giving you this so that you tell me I belong."

Hailey Magee [00:07:18]:
So there's sort of, like, this transactional mentality that underlies people pleasing. Even if we're not being like totally honest with ourselves about when it's happening, that's often at play, right?

Molly Claire [00:07:28]:
And I think a lot, I mean, most people don't even realize this is happening, right? This is the way we've always operated or the way that we were taught to operate and what we've seen. And so I think it's important, like, as all of you are listening to this, to be kind of open minded to seeing, does any of this possibly exist for you? Does this resonate even if you haven't been aware of it? Because it's not like we walk around thinking these things consciously, right, when we're engaging in people pleasing.

Hailey Magee [00:07:57]:
That's so- I love that you said that and I think that's critical. And like we said earlier, people pleasing is how we learn to stay safe. I know for me, like, I was bullied so much as a kid. And so for me, I think a lot of my people pleasing comes from, "Oh, I'll shape shift and be a chameleon and give you what you want so that I have social belonging." And what could be a more normal thing to need? I think the only, the problem is that when you play these behaviors out to their natural conclusion, even if we're not doing them maliciously, it often means we end up in relationships where we're over giving, we're resentful, and people don't feel like they really know us because we haven't been honest about our needs and our limits.

Molly Claire [00:08:35]:
It's almost like, as you were talking, I think about kind of not even existing in the relationship, right? Like there's no space for you when you're people pleasing. And I think, and I'm sure you're going to speak to this, but I know one of the things that I have heard you talk about in relation to people pleasing is the self abandonment, which is really the worst part of it for me.

Hailey Magee [00:09:00]:
It's really insidious. I think we leave ourselves behind all the time. And what I've noticed in my work with people pleasers, what's interesting is like, yes, in our relationships with other people, we over given self sacrifice. But many people pleasers, even when we are alone with only ourselves, we leave ourselves behind and we don't tend to ourselves or take our needs seriously. And so self abandonment is almost like the even deeper level of what's often at play here.

Molly Claire [00:09:31]:
And I want to just pause. So all of you listening, you can think about this, of course, for yourself in your own life and think about how this impacts your clients, how this shows up for your clients. Because, I mean, people pleasing, it's- some people certainly fall more in the category of people pleasers, if we want to say that, right, where it's more of a pattern or habit. But, I mean, it's pretty common across the board.

Hailey Magee [00:09:56]:
It sure is. And in certain settings, there are real rewards for it. Right? Like, I work with so many self employed people, coaches, therapists, who, yeah, they say yes and over give, but it gets them business and it gets them money. And so that's a wild thing, too, is in the people pleasing journey. At a certain point, many of us realize, "Okay, I may be given external rewards for this behavior, but internally, am I in my integrity? Does this feel good? Am I balanced?"And so, so much of this work, I often use the word homecoming to describe breaking from people pleasing. We need to come home to ourselves and value what's in our home inside.

Molly Claire [00:10:35]:
And I think from there, just as you were talking, I think that's where we can make clean decisions about things, right? About the ways we do want to give or offer or serve or whatever it is. Because I think you can do. You could do the same action, right? You could do the same thing in terms of what you're giving and in one energy. You can do it from a place of not being home, as you say. Right. And self abandoning and not even really knowing your own boundaries or limits or why you're behaving that way. And you can also do those same actions from a place of being home, of being grounded. And it's just.

Molly Claire [00:11:11]:
It's completely different.

Hailey Magee [00:11:13]:
Yes. That's the wild thing, is that no single action is intrinsically people pleasing. It's all about the mentality and the reason why we are doing it. There are some people, some of the most generous people I know are not people pleasers. They feel very comfortable within themselves, and they're just generous and they love to give. And the key is they feel like they have a choice and they choose to give. Whereas when we're people pleasing, we don't feel like we have a choice. We're giving because it's compulsory and because we're afraid.

Hailey Magee [00:11:45]:
And that is the difference.

Molly Claire [00:11:48]:
Such a huge difference. Yes. So people pleasing and. Yeah. Is there anything else you wanted to point out about the people pleasing? Because I almost feel like it's like you're talking about people pleasing and already contrasting it with kindness. But I don't want to skip over this.

Hailey Magee [00:12:02]:
That's like, so many different colors of it. I think really, like, with kindness, that's really the fundamental aspect of it, is there's choice. We feel like we have a choice and we're choosing to give. It stems from a place of sort of open hearted goodwill. We're not necessarily expecting anything in return. And when we've been giving from a place of kindness, we don't usually feel resentful afterwards. Whereas when we've been giving from people pleasing, we feel burnt out, exhausted, resentful, and secretly wishing we'd gotten more in return for what we gave. So you can see, right, they're pretty different.

Hailey Magee [00:12:36]:

Molly Claire [00:12:37]:
And I think the other thing that came to my mind is, in people pleasing, we can often feel frustrated with other people.

Hailey Magee [00:12:45]:

Molly Claire [00:12:46]:
Right. Which is not- when I'm, when I'm feeling kindness towards someone, I'm typically not frustrated with them. But when we're in people pleasing, we are kind of, like you said, shape shifting or taking ourselves out of the equation or doing something to get someone else to be or do a certain thing. Right. And then we're frustrated with them.

Hailey Magee [00:13:08]:
And this is where, this is a very polarizing statement because we don't people please consciously oftentimes. But I do think this is where it makes just logical sense that oftentimes people pleasing is a veiled and unconscious form of trying to control other people. Not control in a malicious way, not cause we're trying to harm them, but because we're trying to get desired outcomes from other people. And so we think if I just shape shift and act in this particular way and give this amount, I will get to this magic destination where they finally give me what I need or they finally do what I need. And so it's kind of like an outdated, controlling pattern.

Molly Claire [00:13:45]:
Yeah. And it's like, I mean, that happens, right? When our sense of, like, our locus of control is outside of us. Whereas because we just haven't learned yet, right, to be strong and confident and empowered enough to create what we want in our life and relationships without relying on moving the chess pieces of everyone around us.

Hailey Magee [00:14:04]:
Oh, my God. That so beautifully said. I love the chess and the locus of control piece is really it, like, for people pleasers. As a general rule, our locus of control is not inside, it's outside. And so we're constantly reaching outside of ourselves to construct the situations we want. Instead of just saying, like, "What do I want to bring into this world? What are my non negotiables? How will I express this?"

Molly Claire [00:14:27]:
Yes. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about influence, having influence over people versus trying to control them, because we've kind of already talked a little bit about this.

Hailey Magee [00:14:39]:
Yeah, we're, like, veering into this territory, and this is a tough one. And I just want to encourage listeners, like, control is such a- like, it's a mean word. Like, we say that and we don't want to associate with that word because it sounds icky and gross. And what I want to say is, again, this isn't even necessarily, like, a conscious pattern. It's just how we've learned to stay safe. But generally speaking, something we do need to learn how to do as people pleasers is give ourselves permission to influence others in a direct way. What I mean by that is clearly expressing what we need from people, asking people to meet our needs, being clear and direct in our relationships so that those relationships have a chance to be what we need.

Hailey Magee [00:15:21]:
The problem is when we veer into controlling territory, which often involves withholding information or being dishonest or misleading in order to get someone to do the outcome that we want. And you can kind of see the difference, right. Like, both are strategies of getting what we want from people, but in one way, it's clear and direct and in our power, and in the other vein, in the control vein, we're shapeshifting. We're being dishonest. We're not clear about our limits. We self abandon to get other people to give us what we want from them. And it kind of sucks because then they don't get all the information they need about who we are and whether this relationship is a good fit for them within our boundaries.

Molly Claire [00:16:03]:

Hailey Magee [00:16:04]:

Molly Claire [00:16:04]:
And as you were talking about influence, I was just thinking about how, how difficult it can be. I know many of you listening relate to this to some degree, that it can be difficult to ask for what we want, ask for a need or a desire in a relationship, because we've just opened the door to risking an answer that we don't like, someone who's not interested or able to fill a need or a want, and that's vulnerable. So I think that it sounds good in theory, right, to be willing to ask for things and to be clear and direct. And I think it's that, that vulnerability that can make it a little bit tricky and challenging, especially when it's a new practice.

Hailey Magee [00:16:56]:
It can be so vulnerable just to ask for what we need. I actually think a lot of us skip that step entirely because of how vulnerable it is. We often think, I don't know if you fell into this, but for so much of my life, I was like, "They should just know. Like, they should just know that I need to be loved like this. They should just know that I'm overwhelmed and need help." You know, and it's a really normal pattern to fall into. But what helps me and what helps my clients is remembering that everyone has like a different- think of the love languages, for example. Right.

Hailey Magee [00:17:27]:
People show love in different ways. People show care. People have different temperaments and different sensitivities and trauma histories, et cetera. So people aren't going to show love and care in the same ways that we do. And the only way we can be certain that they know what we need is if we ask. It's really just a pragmatic consideration. If we don't tell them, they won't necessarily know.

Molly Claire [00:17:48]:
Yes, and I want to say something to those of you listening that follow me, and especially the cognitive model and even my master coach training students speaking to this idea that sometimes, this is a little bit of a tangent, but I think we're speaking to is that, you know, sometimes we can learn this idea that in relationships we don't want to have a manual for someone or try to control someone. And so therefore, sometimes we can mistakenly use that idea to just close off from wanting or needing anything. And we go to this place of hyper independence or counter dependence. And I just want to open up this idea that just because we are letting go of controlling someone doesn't mean there isn't a healthy, even if sometimes uncomfortable, space where we are still allowing ourselves to have needs and wants and to ask for them. And I think that truly is the place of health and growth in a relationship, but it's just something that needs to be learned. So I just wanted to mention that to my listeners. So. And of course, totally add.

Hailey Magee [00:18:57]:
Yeah, well, I just like to remember that when we step into that influence, the healthy influence as people pleasers, sometimes we forget, like, they're allowed to say no. And that's what makes influence. Influence is like we're giving them information, we're presenting ourselves, and then they have a choice. Right. Whereas with control, people don't get the choice because we're not giving them all the information. So it really is, it's a difference.

Molly Claire [00:19:21]:
Yes. Yes. And I think that, and I know you're going to share about your book and then also you have such great workshops that you do. And the one that I went to recently was, was also kind of speaking to this idea that - and I probably won't say this in the most articulate way, but you can kind of add to it and clean this up for me - but kind of this idea that as we look at relationships, we can also choose to which degree we want to be vulnerable or ask for things. Right.

Molly Claire [00:19:55]:
Because we've also sometimes learned that certain relationships. I guess I'll just say this for me. Certain relationships offer some things, but just not others. So we won't necessarily expect everything from every relationship. Right.

Hailey Magee [00:20:11]:
And it's really healthy to have, like, differing, you know, different concentric circles of relationship, people who are closer. And it's okay. I think something I think about, which kind of gets us into this dialogue about when should we ask for things versus when should we just know that maybe it's time to take some space or set a boundary. For me, my favorite sort of clarifying question in that space is, like, if you've asked for something or you can tell a relationship isn't meeting a particular need, you can just ask yourself, "Okay, how close and connected am I willing to be to person x if they can't meet my need for insert need here?" Emotional intimacy, curiosity, financial, like, whatever it is for you. And that doesn't mean we need to cut it off entirely, but it does mean that we have a say in the terms of engagement for our relationship.

Molly Claire [00:21:01]:
Yes. I mean, that's such an important thing, because we're not automatically closing off from people. Right. And not wanting to have needs, but we're also aware of the times and ways we want to ask for things and when we may want to put a certain relationship in a category, that means we don't ask for much in that space. Yeah, 100%.

Hailey Magee [00:21:25]:
Especially if we've made lots of requests in the past and they haven't gone well.

Molly Claire [00:21:28]:

Hailey Magee [00:21:29]:
It's important that we learn from those experiences. And instead of asking, asking, asking, we say, okay, I have evidence now that this doesn't work. So what's in my control from here?

Molly Claire [00:21:37]:
Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about boundaries versus requests. Because I know you, it feels like all these are just, like, working together. One is rolling right into the next. We're hitting all these good topics.

Hailey Magee [00:21:51]:
So fluid. But, yeah, I mean, in the simplest sense, I often feel like we confuse boundaries and requests, or we use the word boundaries to describe everything, when in fact, they're a little different. So the simplest way I can put this is when we make requests of people, we ask them to change. We ask them to meet our needs. We are being vulnerable, just like you said, and putting ourselves out there and sort of saying, hey, can you do this? You know, requests are great because they give other people the chance to know what we need, and they're also unenforceable. Right? So I can ask you, but you can say no, or you can get mad, or you can, you know, there are so many outcomes at play. I often think requests in healthy relationships, in relationships where there's a degree of safety and trust, requests are a really good first step when you have an unmet need, because it helps us from falling into that, like, they should just know category. And after a certain point, just like you said, some relationships aren't capable of meeting all of our needs.

Hailey Magee [00:22:55]:
Or sometimes relationships are unhealthy or have unhealthy dynamics. And it's up to us to know when we can, when it's important to remove ourselves from them. So boundaries are how we take space, distance, or time in relationships that maybe don't meet our needs fully. And so ultimately, boundaries are not tools to get more of something from someone. Boundaries are all about us writing and setting our terms of engagement for these relationships, what we will and will not do, how we will and will not participate in them.

Molly Claire [00:23:30]:
And so much of, I mean, boundaries are an internal process, right? I mean, when I think about most of the boundaries that I set for myself and in my life and relationships, most people aren't even aware of those because it's just something I manage internally as far as how I spend my time or engage. Right?

Hailey Magee [00:23:51]:
Totally. They're heavily an internal process. And maybe we communicate. Like, maybe we say, like, "Oh, like, Bob, I can only get together with you once a month. I know we used to do every week." But sometimes our boundaries aren't even communicated. It's just a shift in how we relate to other people inside.

Molly Claire [00:24:07]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. Okay, any. Anything else with regard to boundaries and requests, worth kind of clarifying?

Hailey Magee [00:24:17]:
I think just the last thing I'll say on that is that, um. Yeah, again, like, I recommend starting with requests and relationships where there's trust, but careful not to fall into what I call the cycle of endless requests. Which is where this happens a lot in romantic partnerships. But of course, all relationships, family, too, where we wish so desperately for the other person to just treat us better that we ask and we ask and we ask and we ask.And at a certain point, it's important for us to recognize that asking doesn't necessitate change and that at a certain point, we need to look at the evidence before us and say, okay, they can't or won't meet this need. So from here, I need to decide how close and connected I'm willing to be with them. And often there's grief in the process of boundary setting because it requires that we acknowledge, "Oh, they're not changing. And so I need to change how I relate to them."

Hailey Magee [00:25:07]:
So just, I guess the last thing would be normalizing. Sometimes there's a lot of grief in moving from a request into a boundary.

Molly Claire [00:25:13]:
Yes. And I think that, I know I can say personally, that that's oftentimes why we put off setting boundaries. Right. Or making changes in a relationship that isn't working for whatever reason, because there is going to be a grief. Right. There's a loss and a sadness of what has been or what you hoped for or wanted to be different. And so, yeah, I think just acknowledging that and knowing for all of you, and, of course, for your clients as well, that when we do take those steps to set boundaries or change relationships or release relationships, whatever it may be, that it's normal to have a lot of feelings and making space for them is so important.

Hailey Magee [00:25:58]:
Yeah. They're not a sign that you've done anything wrong or that you're on the wrong track. It's just I think of those big emotions as growing pains.

Molly Claire [00:26:05]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Hailey Magee [00:26:07]:

Molly Claire [00:26:08]:
This has been such a great conversation. So in just a minute I'll have you say any, you know, any final thoughts and, of course, where everyone can find you. But I just, I highly recommend that you all follow her on Instagram. Definitely get your hands on her book, and really understand the work that she's doing, because I am certain that it will help all of you personally. And for sure, it's also going to equip you to just be better prepared to serve your clients, too.

Molly Claire [00:26:39]:
All right, Haley, any. Anything else you want to share or tell everyone where they can find you?

Hailey Magee [00:26:44]:
Oh, no. Just such a great chat. And I love spitballing on this stuff, but, yeah, this stuff, I dive so deep into these nuances and, like, the process of setting boundaries, how to work with those growing pains, all of it in my book called Stop People Pleasing and Find Your Power. And it comes out with Simon and Schuster on May 14.So snag it. I'm excited about it. It's been like a labor of love, you know? Yeah. And then in terms of my workshops, which offer a really cool, like, educational component to this work or just working one on one with clients, you can find all that good stuff at

Molly Claire [00:27:21]:
Perfect. Yeah. And your workshops, I know you offer a few different ones, and they're very interactive. It's a, it's a really good experience. So if any of you are wanting to dive deeper on all of this, that would be a great step, too.

Hailey Magee [00:27:33]:

Molly Claire [00:27:34]:
All right. Thank you so much for being here. It's been amazing.

Hailey Magee [00:27:38]:
Thank you so much for having me. This was rad.

Molly Claire [00:27:41]:
Thanks. Okay. Bye, everyone. I'll see you next time.

Voice Over [00:27:45]:
Thanks for listening to the Masterful coach podcast. Are you ready to build your amazing business with Molly as your coach? Check out to find out about masterful coach foundations and the ten k accelerator method. It's the ultimate support for you as a coach, building your ideal life, life and business.