Molly Claire 00:39

Hey, everybody. Today's interview is so awesome. I just cannot wait to share it with you. Get ready to be inspired if you have been working toward a goal but feeling stuck, if you sometimes wonder if you're ever going to actually have your business off the ground and profitable. This is also for you if you find yourself wondering if you are the only one who's really struggling in life. This interview is with my friend and colleague, Jennie Lakenan, and we're talking about the more personal side of her story, not only in building her business but in overcoming a huge fear that most people don't know she's even experienced. I am enrolling for one-to-one spots to work with me privately this summer to create your program. One-to-one, we will work together to nail your message or your niche. We will talk about and organize your signature program that will help you stand out as a coach, and we will also ensure that you have a clear and compelling offer with the right price point. These are some of the boxes that absolutely have to be checked in your business to really ensure that you have consistent enrollment and you can feel confident selling people on what you are offering. If you're interested in this, just email team@mollyclaire.com and ask for that application. Now, let's go ahead and dive into this incredible conversation with Jennie Lakenan. Hey, everyone. Welcome to this week's episode. I am so excited about today's guest. Jennie Lakenan is amazing at what she does. She has a design business. She builds websites. She has a gift for helping people with messaging, and I could go on and on about this. She's going to share more about it, but part of the reason I am so excited about this conversation is not only have I watched Jennie over the years to build a really successful business, but I've also seen a bit about her story behind the scenes and what it's been like in her family life as she's built her business, including a big challenge for her that she has overcome that she's going to share today.

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Jennie Lakenan 03:09

Thanks for having me, Molly. I'm excited.

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Molly Claire 03:13

Yeah, so good to have you. Okay, so I know I said a bit about it, but tell my audience professionally what you do. Tell them about your business.

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Jennie Lakenan 03:21

Yeah, so I'm a web designer. Um, I'm also a certified story brand guide, which means that, um, and not only that, I guess I'm also a certified life coach through the Life Coach School. So what that means is that I get to bring this beautiful chemistry of like, I love great design. I love making things look better, but also in, you know, in marketing, it's not just about how it looks. It's about how it sounds. So being able to use those story brand skills to like make people sound really good and then having the coaching skills to like hold space for them while we work through their website and their messaging, because, you know, often when clients come to me, it's usually because they're making some kind of change in their business, so they're, they're scaling from, you know, one-on-one to groups, or they are, um, shifting their niche. And so there's like a lot of drama and just stuff that can come up. And those are things that we talk through as well. So yeah, that's me. I mean, we've been doing it for 8 years, and I've built 150+ websites. Which is crazy to say. I bet. It's fun. We have fun.

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Molly Claire 04:22

Yeah, yeah. And you know, I just remember this, what's funny is you and I connected before you became a coach and before you built your business. We did. When I was coaching, this was back when I was coaching moms, I just had my small one-to-one business. And we had a call way back then, things were so different.

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Jennie Lakenan 04:40

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I love that you remember that. I think we might have even like messaged before that, even. And it was it was when I found coaching. So like I found coaching before I did anything really much with web design. I found the life coach school and Brooke Castillo and her podcast. And I was like, this is it. This is my calling. I'm going to be a life coach. And so I started reaching out to all of the certified coaches that were doing anything online, just asking, like, OK, what can I do? To be prepared, would you be willing to get on a call with me? Or I mean, I was this little stay at home mom with two little kids. I had never even really worked full-time before since college, you know. And you were I think I think it was you anyway. You were so sweet. You're like, well, I don't have time for a call right now. But like, I would love to be happy to like provide any written support. If you have any questions, you just send them here. I mean, you are so sweet. And I was just like, oh, my gosh, Molly's so nice.

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Molly Claire 05:36

Well, here we are lots changed for both of us, right and business and life and everything. But yeah, and one of the things also that I just I love about you, Jennie, and I think, you know, for those of you listening, this is something to really tune into and pay attention to. When you're thinking about working with someone or hiring them is Jennie, I know you're a person that yes, you you're certified as a story brand guide, you're certified as a life coach, and not only are you certified in those things, but you are a learner, you are a seeker, you are always learning and paying attention in the work you're doing in how you can even expand and build upon what you've learned, which I think is a big deal. And when I think about, you know, the support you give people with building their website, and their messaging and everything, those kind of expanded skills are a big deal, because it's so easy to get stuck. So I love that about you. And for all of us listening, it's a good thing to ask ourselves, how am I continuing to learn? How am I continuing to build upon what I already know? Because it goes a long way, right?

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Jennie Lakenan 06:43

It really does. Yeah, it really does, especially in this day of, you know, lots of the world is changing with AI and all of that. And I think that human connection and the human wisdom, like practical wisdom, applied knowledge is only becoming more and more important.

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Molly Claire 06:58

Yeah. Yes. We could do a whole episode on that, right? That's a whole bunch of thoughts for me. So Jennie, we know your, and of course we're going to have in the show notes link so people can find more about you business wise, but we're going to dig a little bit more into behind the scenes for you. So you started your business, you have little kids at home. I know there've been, you know, many steps along the way. What is that? And this is such a broad question, but tell us what's it been like for you to build your business from home with little kids, going through pregnancy, finding the balance. Tell us, tell us everything.

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Jennie Lakenan 07:42

Yeah, so many leaps of faith, so many moments that felt like, you know that Indiana Jones movie where he's like in the cavern or whatever, and he's got to like get to the cave on the other side to get the treasure or whatever he is, and there's like this huge chasm, and it doesn't look like there's anything there for him to walk across, but there is, you just like can't see it, and so he like takes this step, and it looks like he's stepping into nothing, but his foot hits the, you know, it hits the ledge, and then he can like walk across to get to the thing, like that's how it's felt so many times. So like when I start, because when I started my business, my husband was still working full time, and I had two little kids, I think they were like one and four or something like that, and it very quickly though became clear, within like three months, it became clear, okay, I can't keep doing what I'm doing, and like serving my clients at the capacity that the business is beginning to demand, if I'm like trying to build a homepage in between changing diapers and getting the kids lunch and everything, and so we made this decision, and you know we prayed about it a lot, it just made this decision, like nope, it's time for my husband to quit his job and come home and be full time dad, and I will run this business, and I will be the breadwinner. I think we'd had like one month where I made as much top line revenue as he brought home, like not even after taxes and everything, so it was a leap, and I wouldn't recommend it to most people, but it was for sure the right thing for us at that point, and that's just like the one example of like leap of faith.

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Molly Claire 09:14

Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it really is. And I just think when you're building a business, there has to be an element of trust and faith in there. Right? There, there just, there has to be. And I know, you know, with your belief system and, and believing in God, and I would say to my listeners, I think the higher power source, whatever people have varying beliefs, but there has to be, I think some element of that there where we rely on that faith in something beyond us to help us. We are all human.

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Jennie Lakenan 09:59

Yeah, or even like, you know, my best friend who she just spent three days with me, she's atheist, 100%. And we have lots of conversations about faith. And like, for her faith, faith means trusting that things are going to get better, you know, or hope that things are going to get better and trust in herself as a human that she can, she can improve and, and, you know, trust in herself to do the things that she's committing to. So like, I think there's lots of different ways to interpret it. But yeah, like, it's definitely a big part.

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Molly Claire 10:30

It is. So I know on the back end in your life, it's been messy just like everyone else, right? Kids, different ages, different stages, different challenges, your husband coming home, of course, big adjustment for him, for you. But one of the things that I want to talk a little bit more about is you facing your fear of driving in recent years. I love this part of your story because all of you listening, I know it's easy to see someone who is succeeding at something business-wise or whatever it is, right? And we can kind of get this idea that things are easier for them or even if one area of life is easy for someone, that they're somehow everything's perfect for them. And I think the reality is none of us are exempt from being human and we all face such different interesting challenges. And so I think you've been killing it all along the way with your business and growth and managing everything behind the scenes, even as messy as it usually is. Talk about this fear of driving and what it's been like for you to face it and overcome it.

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Jennie Lakenan 11:45

Yeah. I mean, a lot, a lot of people who aren't in my like personal local sphere here in Kansas city don't know that I have, that I have had driving anxiety. Um, it started after I had a really minor car accident as a teen. Like it wasn't a big deal. The car wasn't functioning after that, but like I, me and all the passengers were fine. I just kind of never got back in the proverbial driving saddle. Like I had a license, but I just didn't drive after that. And, you know, being in college, not needing a car, getting married, being young, being poor, not ha not having a car. It's like we only have one car. Oh, well. Right. Yeah. And over the years, the anxiety just got worse. Like it would be after, you know, so many times are just mentally reinforcing it by choosing not to drive. Um, and yes, like my husband literally drove me everywhere without complaint for like a decade over the first decade of our marriage, like bless him. Um, and then over the summer of 2024, I just, I mean, kind of long story short, like I just felt like now is the time, like I, enough is enough. You know, I've got to, I've got to deal with this eventually. It's becoming too much of a burden on my husband who would never complain too much on him while he's trying to homeschool our kids and get them to all their things and, uh, you know, get me to all my things too. And so, oh my gosh, Molly, like it was such a scary thing for me to anticipate doing, but I just was willing, like I didn't know how I was going to do it, but I was willing to like try willing to go to like, try to make a plan and see what happened. So what I ended up doing was like, you know, how like OCD protocols are, you know, therapists will make like OCD protocols for people that can't like touch a toilet or whatever, you know, and they'll kind of step ladder their way to getting to where they, you know, where they're more functional. And so that's what I did for myself. Like I decided, okay, I have to just drive every day or I have to get in the car every day. Um, and whatever it is, like I have to do that. So day one, I literally got in the car and I turned it on and I buckled my seatbelt and I adjusted all the mirrors and then I turned the car off again and I got out and day two I like backed out of my garage and then I pulled back in again and then, you know, I would repeat a step until it was like, I can do it without having like a, you know, feeling really anxious. And so, um, and then I would move on to the next one, you know, driving around the neighborhood and then driving to the grocery store eventually and you know, driving on the highway. I mean, that took like six months, I think for me to be able to do that.

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Molly Claire 14:30

Sometimes I don't want to go on the highway here.

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Jennie Lakenan 14:32

Yeah, but that commitment of just like, I'm just going to take a little, very teeny tiny small steps to get there and just being willing to like experience whatever came up. I mean, it was, it was definitely a faith God thing for me. Like I could not do that on my own. It was kind of like, Jesus, take the wheel. Cause literally, I don't feel like I can. But it's been amazing to look back. Like the summer, I mean, it's basically been two years since then and just look at like how, how that small, like consistent willingness has added up over the years where now I can do things. I can serve in church. I can, you know, I can do stuff that I wouldn't be able to do. Otherwise, if I didn't have this flexibility to like just drive myself places, it seems so simple, but.

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Molly Claire 15:20

Yeah, yeah. I mean, let's talk about this a little bit because I know for all of you listening, there's something like this in your life. And maybe it doesn't even seem to be something as glaring. I know just recently I've been putting together a small group. I'm going to work with coaches who are, it's like their message, their signature program, their offer, right? All those things. And it's like application after application, you hear the same things, right? I've been stuck. I'm just like, I've been afraid to move forward and I'm lost in confusion, right? And it's like, it's another version of the same thing where there is a fear of something and a part of us believes we'll never do it. We'll never get there, right? And I think it's crazy to think how there was a time when you probably even said, I don't know if I could ever drive again.

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Jennie Lakenan 16:18

Absolutely, I kind of had no plan to. I was like, I'm just going to keep letting my husband do that. Maybe I'll just make enough money. I can hire a chauffeur. Like I had lots of contingency plans in my mind.

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Molly Claire 16:27

Yeah. Yeah. Right. And so to go from, oh, never again, to this being something that you do regularly now is really amazing. And to think back as well. And so all of you, as you're listening to this and thinking like, what's the thing that I'm afraid to, whether I'm really aware that I'm afraid to do it, or if it's just kind of a little more distant. And as we're having this conversation, you're realizing that you're afraid of it, right? Thinking about what is for all of you that first step. So for you, Jennie, it was getting in the car, right? Literally. Buckling up, adjusting the mirrors. What was that like for you? Just get, knowing that that was all you were going to do that day and getting in the car and doing it.

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Jennie Lakenan 17:19

Mm-hmm, yeah, I think the big shift happened even before that where it was just like, okay, I believe that I can do this, like I can possibly do this, and I don't have to push myself so far out of my comfort zone that I'm gonna just die, like internally, I'm just gonna like shrivel up. It was almost a relief to get in the car and know like, okay, I'm not asking so much of myself that like my nervous system just can't even handle it. I'm just gonna show up this tiny little bit that I can withstand today, and then tomorrow I'm gonna ask, or you know, a few days later, however long it takes, I'm gonna ask myself to push a little more. I'm just gonna keep being willing, expanding that willingness to experience that discomfort and that fear, and over, like it doesn't seem like much, it's almost discouraging, right, because you're like, but I should be moving faster, because a lot of times in business we do that to ourselves. It's like, no, let's just ask a little bit more, compare ourselves to ourselves, not to external, and over time that gets you so far.

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Molly Claire 18:22

Yeah. I mean, it really does. This is a funny thing, but I've had conversations with my sister about this because my sister and I work together in business and we have different ways of working and everything, right? And we've had so many conversations about pace and what's the right pace and whatever. And the truth is the right pace is the one that's right for you, right? And we would sometimes, I love turtles, you know, chocolate turtles with the nuts and the caramel and stuff. And they have those ones that are called millionaires. Have you seen those? But they're turtles. And so I love that idea that a turtle can become a millionaire, right? Or whatever it is that you want in your business. It's those little steps. And I think sometimes, in fact, where we get into trouble is where we believe that going all in on a goal means going big and going for it and just like feel the fear and do it anyway. And that is not always the most effective approach. And it's certainly not necessary.

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Jennie Lakenan 19:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and this is a really great, yeah, that's a really great comparison. Yes, and just like comparing it to like, I remember hearing my client Christa St. Germain say once at a conference, I was like having lunch with her and some other people and she's very successful. Like she's got a very successful coaching program for Wooded Moms and someone who really looked up to her, was sitting next to her and they turned to her and they said, hey, like what do you wish you had done differently when you were first starting your business? Like what do you wish that you had, what would you go back and tell yourself? And she said, well, I wish I had like, it was just such an offhand comment. She was like, I wish I had like perfected a little bit less and just like implemented a little bit faster. Like I would, you know, not, and she didn't say it in like a hustle kind of way, but she was kind of like, I wish I'd just perfect, like worried about the details a little bit less and like moved it forward, tried things a little bit more willingly, you know? And I was like, ah, that's such good advice because we knit, like we kind of nitpick. I mean, I could have sat there making my like driving protocol for months and never actually gotten in the car, you know? And that would have just held me back and just stopped me from, you know, just taking those little steps to get there.

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Molly Claire 20:48

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so then I also want to know what it was like for you the day that you backed out of the garage and pulled back in.

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Jennie Lakenan 20:59

I think it felt so, it felt right. Like it felt so good to be working on that.And again, like everyone's going to experience their discomfort differently, but sure. Like it felt so scary, but then you get to the end of it and I like, I get out of the car and I'm like, I didn't die. Maybe I can do this. Like, just honestly, that's what I felt like.

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Molly Claire 21:23

Like a relief. Yeah, yeah, so amazing. What I'd love to know also from you is your insights in comparisons you would make with this because not only have you built your business but you help other people as they're building their business, right? As they're afraid to build their website as they get stuck with their messaging and all of that. Like what comparisons do you see here specifically in terms of advice you would give my listeners as they're trying to move forward and meet their goals?

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Jennie Lakenan 21:55

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of what I see is like indecision and fear and yeah, kind of like perfectionism that is trying to just hide the uncertainty of knowing is this thing going to work or not, because it is all an experiment, right? Like before we started the podcast, you were telling me, you're like, I see you as kind of someone that's, you know, steady and methodical and driven in everything that you do in your business. I'm like, yeah, and I'm still feel like I'm throwing spaghetti at the wall every day. You know, like it's still just all an experiment because really that's what, that's what business is. It's you just got to try stuff and then see what works and evaluate and then move forward. And so I think like there's something, something in this about if we can just, I guess I would say that a little different, a little bit differently. Like if we can be willing to decide on a course of action with our, with our messaging or our niche and try it and experiment with some, maybe create some social media content around it or, you know, go to some networking groups and just see how that pitch lands and then take that as feedback and evaluate and adjust and then go try again, you know, and the faster, again, not from a place of like hustle, but just from a place of kind of frequency of trying things like the more we can just experiment with that and then go back to the drawing board and revise then, you know, we're going to get, we're going to get there eventually.

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Molly Claire 23:24

Yeah, we're going to get there eventually. And I think that's one of the big things is that I think the idea of going all in or going big, some of these things. And here's what I would say about that. Sometimes those words and that approach can work for people. There's not a one size fits all in terms of how you should think or the affirmations or questions you should use. There's just not a one size fits all. But what I think is one of the most powerful uses of that go for it all in is more about the decision or the commitment to that end goal. The difference between, I'm going to go for it, I'm going to go all in, I'm going to get in the car today and I'm going to go to the store. No, it wouldn't have happened on day one or who knows how it would have affected you, but rather you had that moment of decision and knowing and feeling this is the time and I'm going to get there and I'm going to make a plan and I don't have to rush it as long as I stay the course, I'm going to get there. And I really think it's that commitment and decision that is one of the most powerful things to keep us moving forward.

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Jennie Lakenan 24:51

Yep, 100%. Another time that this came up for me was early 2020. I'd been in business for two years, things were going well. And I really had this internal desire to have another kid, like we had two kids, and they were old enough. Now I felt like, okay, physically, I feel like I could do it now. But I was so scared, Molly, because I was the breadwinner now. Yeah, yeah. And, and I get pretty sick when I'm pregnant. Like, I don't go to the hospital or anything, but I just feel terrible the whole time and spend a lot of time in bed. And I thought I can't do that and still run my business. But again, like, God kind of worked on me for about a period of six months or so. And he helped me just see like, things don't have to crash and burn. Like I have, I have support in my business. I've got you know, I had a really great admin developer at the time and my brand designer Dina. And I thought, you know, no, I see how this could work if we have this much saved. And we make a game plan. Dina will step into finished projects so I can stop during first trimester. You know what I mean? Like, I kind of physically, like, like just mentally was able to work through it, make a bit of a plan. And then so when we got pregnant, I mean, it was COVID, like, it was kind of crazy times. But it's actually the best time to be pregnant, because no one was asking me anything. And I literally could just lay in bed all day and do the odd Zoom call when I needed to. But like, I, I pretty much took off first trimester and then second trimester, we opened up at half capacity and filled up pretty quickly. And then I took, you know, maternity leave off and like it worked. It worked out. And I look back at that. And I'm like, if I had just stayed in my head, like freaking out about it, I wouldn't have sat down and kind of made this game plan, believed it would be possible. Did stuff come up during pregnancy that I didn't anticipate? Like, sure, but we figured it out as we adjusted our plan. You know what I mean? And like, yeah, yeah, I'm just so grateful to pass to me because now we have that girl, I've got my three little girls, and they're perfect. And our family is so complete with them. And like, oh man, it's just amazing what we can do when we really decide. I'm gonna figure it out.

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Molly Claire 26:59

decide, decide. That's right. I love that. And I love, love, love, especially that you were making a plan that accommodated for what you knew your needs would be. And of course, we can't always anticipate that, but that's a very different approach than, well, I'm just going to push a little harder, right? I'm going to do a little more. It'll be fine, kind of expecting ourselves to spread ourselves more thin. Instead, you honored what you would need. And you made decisions based on ensuring to the best of your ability, continued steadiness and quality of life, which is a huge deal in terms of long-term success.

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Jennie Lakenan 27:48

Mm-hmm, exactly, yeah. And I think that really was the shift there as I planned it, because before the pregnancy, I was like, oh, if I get pregnant again, I need to be able to function the same as I do now. I need to be able to continue to grow my business and all these things. And once I made the shift of like, well, how about I not expect that of myself? How about I just decide, nope, I'm gonna be growing a human. So therefore, I'm just gonna decide, I'll probably feel worse even than I did with my other pregnancies, and I'll need even a little more support. And let's just make sure we've got a game plan in place to support that, that way, worst-case scenario. And I mean, I needed it. I'm so grateful that I didn't ask crazy things of myself during that time.

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Molly Claire 28:28

Yeah. And I think what's coming to mind is what I have to bring and give will be enough. It will be enough. And God will make up the rest or right again, whatever beliefs we can really lean into because all we can bring it really has to be enough. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I've been thinking, you know, about this because, um, and I talked a little about this on the podcast a few weeks ago, I was in an accident the end of last year and have continued to really struggle. I'm not sure if I had mentioned that to you, but I listened to the episode. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, right. My emotional stamina, my mental stamina, like a lot of things have really been affected. And I think I was sort of accommodating what I needed and also a little in denial, like, okay, this is going to go away. This is going to go away. And then I was like, you know what? I don't know when, or I don't know how this is working, but I'm open. I'm like, okay, this is what is what I can bring. It's got to be enough and it can be enough. And I can also keep my goals. I don't know how it's going to happen, but it's enough. I think there's a lot of power and peace in that. Yeah.

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Jennie Lakenan 29:44

Yeah, I totally agree and love for ourselves like it's just it's like what we would do for our child or our spouse you know and we do that for ourselves.

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Molly Claire 29:53

Yes, yes, yes. Okay, this has been such a great conversation. Jennie, as we finish up, what advice would you give sort of business wise, you know, thinking about your ideal clients who are listening to this, people who are, you know, wanting to build their brand and their message? What advice do you have? We've already given them some of it.

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Jennie Lakenan 30:19

I know. Yeah. Like the mindset advice we gave on this has just been so great. I'm like, I'm going to need to go listen to this again. And I guess I would say for those that are new and kind of starting out and getting the ball rolling, it's really just a matter of, I am a fan of, of niching down. Once you feel confident in your skills as a coach, go ahead and be narrow because it will just make your message easier to share. And when you're more memorable, when it's easier to share, when someone says, Oh yeah, I'm really struggling. I'm a dog. I'm a dog sports enthusiast and I'm really struggling with my, with my, my dog. Cause I get nervous and then my dog gets nervous that immediately I know, Oh, well they need a Len Lawler like a hundred percent, you know? And like, it's so much easier to refer people when you can be specific. So like, I don't know what you teach on that. Hopefully I'm not like competing with what you would, what advice you would give. But when you're just starting out, that helps a lot. Yeah. And then when you're a little bit further along down the road, I think the biggest thing has been helpful for me is recently I've been going back and listening to all of my, um, consults from clients who ended up being a yes. Um, and I am looking for the trends in those conversations and the phrases that get repeated a lot. And then I'm going to my website copy and I'm looking at my social media content and I'm saying, okay, what are ways I can find opportunities to use their exact words in my content? Because that's going to resonate so much more than anything Claude could write on its own or anything like that.

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Molly Claire 32:01

Yeah, I love that. I love that. Brilliant, brilliant advice. And the only thing I'll add to this with niche, first of all, I'm always open to competing advice because I think, right, we learn from different approaches and such. So right now, right, as I'm working with my clients on that message piece in this group this summer is sometimes I found it can be helpful if there's a lot of worry, pressure, perfectionism in niching down to one thing. Sometimes what I do with my clients is, okay, you don't have to niche your entire business. But what's one of the problems you solve? And let's write to that. Let's design a program to one of those things, right? And then it allows you to anchor in some of that stronger messaging. It gets things moving. And I just, I find that that can give people a little more sense of breathing room and take away some of the pressure because it really does help the more specific you can be. Absolutely.

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Jennie Lakenan 32:56

I love that though, but you don't have to be like well, but now I'm just the ADHD coach or now I'm just and that's a lot of pressure and what if I don't like that and I mean, yeah, I love that. That's a great idea.

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Molly Claire 33:06

Exactly. Exactly. There's plenty of ways to do it, but really good advice on that. Jennie, thank you so much for sharing your story and for being you and just be example of being a woman who has continued to lean in and use your gifts and care for yourself in the meantime. It's a beautiful example to all of us and so glad you could be here.

Jennie Lakenan 33:35

Thanks for having me, Molly.

Molly Claire 33:37

All right, everyone. I'll talk with you next week. Have a good one.