Molly Claire 00:39

Hello, everyone. Welcome to today's episode. It has been a crazy full year. I absolutely cannot believe it is already the middle of December. A lot has happened, especially over these last few months. And I'm actually really eager to share some of what's been transpiring for me personally and in the business as we move into 2026. But for today, I am thrilled to bring you a special rebroadcast of one of the best episodes ever released. This is a conversation with three powerhouse women who are incredible in this space of self-development. You're going to hear from Leah Davidson, Lindsay Poelman, and Melanie Fay. And we're having a conversation about this holistic approach to creating change for ourselves and for our clients. Now, as you listen to this episode, we're talking very much about how this comes into play in master coach training specifically. So while this episode is very much geared toward coaches, those of you that are not coaches and you're just really wanting to develop self, tune in here and listen to the ways in which you can find some of those gaps in how you are supporting yourself in your own development and change. I have to say each of these three women have been instrumental in my own development, in my own growth, in my own healing. I have worked with each of them personally in different ways, and it is an absolute honor to bring them here to you as they share their wisdom. So get excited and let's dive in to this special rebroadcast episode and have a powerful conversation with these women. All right. So this is so exciting. I know for most of you listening, unless you're just happened to watch one of the clips online, you can't see these beautiful faces I'm looking at, but I'm thrilled to bring you this podcast today where I have Lindsay, Leah, and Melanie. I just feel like I'm with a dream team when it comes to safe, effective coaching practices and really helping you as a coach to have a broader understanding of how the work you do specifically fits into helping your clients in a really big way. So first, I want to just introduce each of my guests here and have them say a little bit about them. And what's really cool to me about this, not only because these women that you're going to hear from today are all so brilliant and you're going to gain so much from them, but they've all been a part of my own journey in different ways.

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Molly Claire 03:23

So that's really fun for me personally. So all right. So Melanie, Melanie, you've been on the podcast before. I have worked with Melanie personally, privately for a very long time. It has been some of the greatest work of my life, for sure, and continues to be. And Melanie has also served in my communities that I've worked with with my clients, teaching them, working with many of them. And she specializes in EFT or the emotional freedom technique and tapping. So Melanie, welcome. I know I kind of just said what you do, but share a little bit about how you would describe what you do.

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Melanie Fay 04:06

Thank you, Molly.  I think I'd like to start just sharing with your audience about why I do what I do, because I think that maybe is the best lead in to explain why it's so important to me. I actually sort of come from a thought work background, not formally, but just with myself. I've always been really involved in personal development. I had a couple of things happen when I was a kid that sort of launched me in this direction of feeling like I needed to find a way to feel safe. I really looked towards thought work and everything I was learning there as a medium to do that. I got so far with what I was trying to accomplish, and that was going very smoothly until I started to have some new traumas showing up in my life. Once those things were happening that were sort of mirroring things that happened when I was a child, the thought work was no longer cutting it at all. I was just sort of in pan and state. I was not doing well, but in addition to that, it caused me to feel like a lack of compassion for myself and anger at myself because it was no longer working. So then I found tapping, which is this tool that we'll continue to talk about. We'll talk about more in the podcast, and you'll learn about in the program where it allowed me to start to engage my body in what I was experiencing through in my life. So it was this linchpin where now all the thought work training I had done, now that I had this tool where I could bring my body along, it allowed me to continue to move forward where I had sort of stalled out. So that's just a very little bit, and I'll cut myself off because I can be really long-winded. But the reason why I'm saying that is because the tools that I think all of us are bringing to this program, this nervous system approach, it allows for a level of two things that I think are incredibly important. One is compassion for ourselves. When we stall out and we're no longer able to make the changes that we were able to make, we will understand, I'm going to cry, we will understand why, both for ourselves and for those around us, and we'll know what to do about it for ourselves and those around us. Because really, it's not our fault. And once we start to learn about the nervous system, we really become aware of why that is. So this learning creates that space of compassion as well as a tool to move through it. And I can't think of anything more important than that, truly, in terms of growth.

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Molly Claire 06:49

Yeah. Yes, I know. And now I'm going to cry. We might all cry today. We'll just decide it's okay. And my episode actually that aired last week was me sharing more about my personal experience, which I very much relate to everything you're saying, Melanie. And I know a lot of people listening to this do as well. It's like the thought work that cognitive approach was so helpful and so powerful for so long in so many ways until it wasn't. And I don't think, I think sometimes I hear noise about kind of almost putting down or dismissing the cognitive approach, interestingly, when people approach this, but I just, I don't believe that to be true. I believe it. It has a really powerful place. It's just that if there's missing pieces, it's just, it's not going to be useful. So anyway, but yes, thank you so much for sharing all of that, Melanie. And I'm just, yeah, so excited to talk more about it. All right. So Leah, tell us about you now, Leah. Our interaction was you actually being in my program, right? The Coaching Collective was a totally different way that I've typically engaged with you. And I've just been so excited to see as you've kind of stepped into this nervous system work and brought it, I don't know if I'd say broaden what you are working on, maybe narrowing is more like it just because of, of everywhere you've been. So anyway, tell us what you do and yeah, kind of how you came to it as well.

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Leah Davidson 08:16

Sure. Yeah. I sort of feel like I've just pulled together everything that I've been doing over the many years. So I, as you said, specialize in nervous system resilience, stress and burnout. But I've also been a speech language pathologist for almost 25 years now. And when most people think of that, they think of our tick like R's and S's and working in schools. And I actually worked in the area of traumatic brain injury. So it was people who have been in accidents, experienced injuries to their brain, and then alongside with it, PTSD and PTS and everything in between. So I specialize in an area called cognitive communication. So it's helping people with their cognition and their communication. And over the years, as I was working with them, that not only was their injury causing sort of almost blocks in their ability to learn all the strategies, but I started to notice there were other things going on. And that's really where I started diving into more work with the nervous system and more work, I found mindset. And I have always been sort of doing nervous system work along the way without it being called that. Because I think like, it's sort of like when we talk about being trauma informed, when we look at the definitions or the multiple definitions of trauma informed, I was like, I've been doing that for 25 years, but it just wasn't popularized then with a certain term. So I just started introducing more and more mindset. And that was brilliant. And like you said, I would never not cognition because that's my foundation and mindset. I saw brilliant changes with my clients. But it was only when we were able to regulate the nervous system, were people really able to embrace. And I think to have been victims to accidents or injuries or abuse. And this feeling, this knowledge that it's not their fault is so freeing for them. So I just pulled it all together. And as I was working, I started working with clients who didn't have brain injuries. And as I was working with more and more people, more people were saying, I love the way you present it. I love the way you share it. I don't look at like coming at nervous system as a technique, so to speak. I think it's a foundation and we have to understand the foundation. And then there's so many different tools and we all use different ones. We all use the same ones that people will resonate with. So I think it's so important to have those different tools, but the nervous system really to me is everything that you want to build on. And that's why I created my training, which is advanced training and nervous system resilience. How does the nervous system work? How does it work? What is trauma? And then all the layers, how does it work with the executive function skills and neuroplasticity and chronic pain illness and emotions and burnout? How does it work with all those things? So that's what I do with my training now.

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Molly Claire 11:14

So incredible. I love it. And it was, it was interesting when you were saying, I've always kind of done this because, and I think that, I think that's true typically for, I don't know, I would imagine that I, well, I think Lindsay, you can tell me if I'm wrong or whatever, but when we, when we move over to talking to you, I think it's like, this is the way that you've coached in this way, right? You've done this. And then we kind of sometimes put words to it or describe it more clearly or even understand it more clearly, because I can say the same, like my, my approach to cognitive work, I think was always a little different and always brought in a bit of a bigger picture now, even more so, right? As I've learned more, but yeah, I just, I love your work. I'm so glad to have you here.

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Leah Davidson 11:58

I think we're just putting labels to a lot of things that people were intuitively doing and having a greater understanding of why it's so important and why it's important to put a label to it so that people can start recognizing what they're doing instead of just sort of intuitively thinking, Oh, is this right? Is this? Now we're being a bit more explicit with it.

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Molly Claire 12:19

Yeah, yeah, especially and I like your bring up that word intuition cuz this does move exactly over to Lindsay, right? But it's like one of the things that I'll say Lindsay that that you and I have worked with a lot I've also done with this with you Melanie as well. But Lindsay had the conversations we've had about like where is this activation and where is the intuition? Right, kind of sifting through because I think that until we learn more about this, intuition I think is actually really powerful, but it can be really hard to distinguish it from you know nervous system activation or thoughts that are coming in that are not intuitive. So yeah, I love all of that. Okay, so Lindsay. Lindsay I've worked with you personally and I know I've said this whenever we have an interview, I feel like it made no sense for me to join Lindsay's trauma-informed program, Not that I didn't need it, but I had some pieces of it already, I had so many things going on. It didn't make any sense, but it made all the sense I knew that I needed to sign up for it and it was definitely one of the best decisions that I've made. It helped me so much personally, has helped me so much in my practice with my clients. So Lindsay, tell us about what you do.

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Lindsay Poelman 13:32

Oh, thanks for all the time words, Molly. So kind of you. Yeah, so I, my name's Lindsay Poelman and I run an advanced certification for coaches who want to become trauma-informed and I also have a full trauma-informed coaching certification. And I came to this work because I went through my own betrayal trauma with my partner years and years ago. And I remember, you know, just kind of like trying to find help really. Like I tried everything because when I went through everything I could through like eight years ago, there just wasn't the support as rarely as there is today. And so I did thankfully find a really good therapist who's really helped me with grieving and deep processing and stuff like that, but I was only able to go so far. And then once I found the mindset component, it helped me a ton too. And then from there, just, you know, I got various certifications and trainings and things like that. And I started initially working, you know, with people who were like me because I remember thinking like, if I could have had me, like that would have been so much more helpful, like so much less like wandering and different things. Not to say that the way that it worked out for me wasn't the way it was meant to be, but I remember starting out that way and wanting to support women who had gone through similar stuff. And then what happened from there was just, you know, different coaches started hiring me who didn't necessarily have the same, you know, betrayal in their marriage with respect to their partner's porn youth, but they were navigating something similar. And then I started seeing all the parallels that, you know, that I had learned in my, you know, my partner trauma training with respect to betrayal and everything like that. I started seeing all these parallels and how having a trauma-informed lens could be so much more informative and supportive for them with respect to their nervousness and needs and things like that. Once I started seeing all the parallels, I just thought like, like if every coach, if every human were, you know, understood the nervous system and understood trauma, like how differently would we, you know, receive abuse survivors and receive our clients who are coming to us and needing to be validated and witnessed and seen. And so that's kind of my vision is to just do everything I can to just support every human and understanding nervousness, the more trauma-informed work. And again, the goal of that ultimately, if this is what people want is so that they can really live a life from their soul, from their intuition and from that power space and feel safe enough in their body to not only just like see that, not only know what the calls of their intuition are, but feel safe enough to live from there too. So yeah.

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Molly Claire 16:10

Love it. Yeah, I think that because you bringing that trauma lens and talking about relationship trauma, and I know also you talk about a lot of conditioning, like societal conditioning and how that comes into play. I know that's actually a big topic that you're talking more and more about and you'll be talking about some of that in the program as well. So one of the things you said is you brought up validation and being seen and heard. And this is one thing I think that typically in the kind of the outspoken popular coaching space, we hear so much about like, we shouldn't need any outside validation, right? It's all about self-validation. And I think there's certainly value in that, right? And I think sometimes it misses out on the fact, first of all, that humans are as we are designed to connect and especially where you're talking about abuse survivors, people have experienced any level of trauma, which most of us have, you know, experienced some, that sense of being held and that validation is so crucial because it's so easy for us to invalidate ourselves and use all the tools that are supposed to be helping us, right to invalidate our experience, invalidate our intuition, invalidate all of it. And so I just love that you said that and I wanted to highlight it for the coaches listening because yes, we want to self-validate. Yes, we want to be strong. We don't want to be dependent on other people's view of us. And there are times and ways in which it is really important for us to have that supportive validation. Yeah.

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Lindsay Poelman 17:54

Yeah, because it's just like helping someone recognize that like their lived experience gets to be theirs and being a witness to that without having an agenda for that to change can go so far as far as facilitating safety and healing and growth. And it's just, it's so fascinating too with respect to some of our societal conditioning too because it really is done and can be done in a very empowered way, right? Some people are afraid to go there and to really like sit in, you know, spaces where they haven't ever been validated or seen or allowed to feel or profess, right? And yeah, like it can be done in a really grounded empowered way so that we can continue to shift where we want to shift as a collective.

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Molly Claire 18:36

Yes. And of course, just like as with seems to be everything, the problem enters in when we are criticizing ourselves. I shouldn't need outside validation. I should be this, I should be this, right? All of this noise that comes in. So, okay. So this is so exciting. So as you can hear, I have these powerhouse women here, so caring, so genuine. So of course, the program that we're going to be bringing together, each of you, of course, are going to be experts in the program. And there will be advanced thought work, which takes into account some of these pieces, of course, and then really diving into each of these areas. So this is what I want to know from you, because there are a lot of different coach trainings. Of course, I have a lot of people who follow me from the life coach school or other schools that do very much cognitive work. That's why I'm so excited to bring a program that is much more holistic. I'd love to hear from some of you. And we've kind of already talked about this, but anything specific that you want to say as to how you see more of a holistic approach taking in all of the things you've offered up, of course, including also some of the grief, the parenting, some of the strategy, some of the action, all of those things coming into play. How do you see that as beneficial? And you can just, I'm not even going to call on you. You can just speak up and share what you have to share and hopefully we'll just go around each of you.

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Lindsay Poelman 20:03

The reason that I'm just so in love with what you're doing, Molly, is because in my eyes, you can't completely compartmentalize the brain. And so I think there's a way to present and teach about mind, body, soul, intuition, nervousness, and stuff like that. But ultimately, it's all overlapping. Societally, even with school and academics, a lot of stuff is taught separated. Right? Even if you think of the anatomy of a body, it's like you analyze the stomach, and then you analyze the sleep, all of these different things, but we're not always looking at the whole picture. And so just the idea that you're bringing together this holistic approach that takes the body into account to me just feels so much more sustainable and loving and honestly just grounding, even just considering it because I know I don't have to... If I were to be going to the program, we don't have to hustle. We don't have to grind. We don't have to override our needs of safety with certain thoughts or things like that. And so it just, to me, it comes off as a more curious, calm approach to doing the work that we want to do.

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Molly Claire 21:14

Yes, I love that. And yeah, it's true, right? It's beneficial to specialize and learn more about one certain thing. And that whole bringing it all together is so important. It made me think of, I mean, well, in my own... I don't want to go off on too much of a tangent because I want to hear from the other two of you as well on this. But thinking about my health when I was experiencing chronic fatigue syndrome. And I would have one symptom here and one symptom there. And it's like, if we're just treating that in isolation, we're missing the boat on why this is even happening to begin with, right? And I also had a running injury where I had an injury to my foot. And it's great to focus on the ways that we could support my foot and heal my foot. But guess what? You're walking on that foot and it goes all the way up the body, right? So then it impacts the knees and the hips and everything. And so I've just seen in so many ways and times in my life, the value of really understanding certainly one piece of it or several pieces of it and that big picture. So that's just kind of what it made me think about. Yeah. Love it.

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Leah Davidson 22:25

I'll jump in. From my perspective, I'm very cognitive-driven. Just my background has always been. But what you start to realize is that there is science behind all these things. When we talk about, I think that people think, well, mindset and cognition is more of the science piece, and then this is all the woo. Right? Oh my gosh, I'm so glad you said that. And that was my resistance years ago. I was like, how am I going to bring this in? I'm in a medical model. I'm working with a team. This is healthcare. We're regulated health professionals. What I started realizing, I was like, hold on a second. This is not woo. This is biology. This is the way our nervous system works. It takes these thousands of imprints along the way. And trauma is not some thing that is just popular in society. Trauma is what happens when our nervous... It's our response when we get stuck in a dysregulated state. So more and more as I pull it together, I'm like, I don't know how we can do it. I don't know how we can separate it because we're removing biology from it. We're removing the physiology. We're removing everything that we know about science. And science is starting to even have the research to show all these woo things that people have always made. They're not woo anymore. It's being backed by science. So that's my perspective when I look at holistic. I'm like, holistic is what science is showing us we have to do. And so I love that for your coaches, they're going to be able to dive in and get a sampling of all these different things. And then they can go explore deeper in certain areas as we all did. But I think once you see something, you can't unsee it. And this is our biology. This is how we are designed.

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Molly Claire 24:25

Yes. Oh my gosh, I love it. And that's what, you know, as I was thinking about pulling this together, I know that there's crossover in what all three of you do, right? And what I do as well, and then Krista St. Germain, she brings the grief piece to it and she's going to be on an interview later this month. But I love that each of you have your own flavor and way of thinking about it and way of teaching it. And certainly there's crossover and there's also that separation. But background. It's very science, you know, it's just, it's your way of teaching and bringing it. And I love it. And Lindsay's vibe on this is like so different than that and so beautifully complimentary. Not that Lindsay's not interested in science, right? But Lindsay, definitely the way you teach and approach it is just a very different approach to the whole thing. And I love it.

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Melanie Fay 25:19

I'd like to talk about this a little bit. And I have so many different ways I want to start this conversation that I've been trying to sort it out in my mind. But just going right from what Leah just said with this idea that we can't separate it. And I just want to pause there for a second. Because we talk about modalities. And we do this to this is what I would call part of our disembodied state as a culture. We talk about modalities as if they're these choices that we can then put ourselves through. And there are different ways of thinking about change. But we are, just stick with me, everyone just stick with me for a second. We are people. It's like I'm hugging myself right now. We are, we are this whole entity that are, in my perspective, that our mind is trying to understand. And no matter what modality we choose, something that we can't get away from, and this is what Leah was saying, is the fact that we are a body. We have one. We have one. And many of us would rather we didn't. It's true. It's truly true. And part of the reason, I'm just going to say that for all of us, and part of the reason that is, is because our body does all this misbehavior. I'm putting quotes around my head. Like it acts in all these ways that we'd rather it not, right? Like Lindsay was saying, we don't board with that first thing that I was saying, like fundamentally, we are also a body. If we can accept that, it's easier to accept it. Okay, this is really true. It's easier to accept it if we have tools that help us work with it. Because if we don't have tools that help us work with our body and our body's responses, which are hardwired, right? And I know that Leah is going to teach all about this, about the midbrain, how it overrides, right? If we don't have tools to work with the body, then sometimes the best solution we have is to criticize ourselves or to associate or continue to muscle through, which is a solution. And so what these tools offer, what accepting that we have a body, accepting, learning a bit, even just a tiny bit about the nervous system or breathing can help us get that body on board with the intentions we're trying to make.

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Molly Claire 27:57

I love it. Yeah. I mean, I think that sums it up beautifully because it is true. We're all just trying to solve for these misbehaviors, right, that are happening. We're all trying to figure it out. We're all trying to understand. And sometimes the solutions we come up with or the way that we try to solve for things, it's not the most effective, but it's certainly one solution that we come up with. So I think this allows us to just broaden that. And like you said, having more tools to do that well for ourselves.

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Molly Claire 28:29

Okay, this is so good. All right. So here's a question I would love to know from each of you as well is in your work with coaches and I know Melanie now I think you do work with probably primarily coaches. I'm always sending people to you. Maybe Melanie works with my whole family. I'm not really sure.

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Melanie Fay 28:50

I work with coaches, but I'll primarily coaches, but also because I work in Krista's program, I also work with many, many widowed moms. Oh, sure. But there's a real crossover there that I think maybe it's worth taking a moment to talk about, which is part of working with the nervous system in my experience and specifically with TAP and with the work we do, because it's the ability to sit with, even just for a moment, the feelings that we're feeling in our body, the way our nervous system is responding to a certain trigger or situation. And when we're in the grieving state, right, where we're in a state of grieving, grief is normal, it's natural, it's human, it's important. So the space of grief allows for that surrendering to the nervous system, we could say in a way, because often that's the time when our heart and our mind is just broken open and we really start to feel. So I wanted to kind of bring that in because you would say Krista's going to be into the program and she offers grief and grief, an approach to grief work. But I wanted to say, just take a little moment to talk about how I think grief fits into all of this work, because sometimes grief is that big feeling that cracks us open. So with your clients, whether they're experiencing grief or not, what I'm going to say for Krista, what I think you're going to learn from the grief portion of it, either way is that big emotions are okay and how it's okay to hold space for them, right? If you can hold space for someone's grief, then it'll be easier to hold space for their anger, which are all nervous system activation that can be worked with in different ways.

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Molly Claire 30:42

Yes. And that just, this is kind of a little bit of a side note. But when I, I just want to mention, because I know it's, it's been really important for me personally, you know, when we, we talk about being able to feel an emotion, and it certainly seems like an easy thing, right? Well, just feel the feelings, just feel the emotion. And it's easier for some than others. And I know that I can say for me that I've really needed the being with the practitioners that I'm working with. You know, of course, I've worked with both Mellie, you and Lindsay on my, my personal work. And it's different for me when I can be with my coach and be supported and help through those, because those feelings are really hard to feel. They're so hard to feel and to navigate. And I think that especially because so many times, and this has definitely been the case for me that, that we've, we've never really learned how to do that. We experience an emotion and then it's like our brain, it immediately goes to different ways of shutting it down. And so I think there's, there's really, I'm, I'm saying this in part to the coaches listening to this, how valuable it is for you as a coach to be there with someone in a space to help them navigate, feeling those emotions and helping to support a space that continues to be safe to feel those emotions. So I just, I wanted to highlight that because it is such a big deal. Most of us don't know how to do it. And as a coach, you being there with your clients and able to create that space is one of the biggest gifts I think that we can give. So I just, I want to emphasize that just a little bit. So yeah.  Yeah. I mean, it's true. I, I know, like I said, for me, and, and, you know, many people that I've worked with as well, where it's like they, they need to be guided through and supported through feeling those emotions. And, and really the way I see it also is, is setting a new track, a new protocol in our brain for how we handle it, right? Instead of the feeling comes up and then we do X behavior or Y or Z, or we move to criticizing or shutting down or whatever it is. So I think as coaches, when we can support our clients in feeling those emotions in a healthy way and guiding them to learn a new way of processing and feeling and, and all of that, it really is creating a new pathway, a new plan, a new protocol for how it, how it works. So.

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Lindsay Poelman 33:32

Yeah. And I love that you said that too, because I feel like when we can do that with our clients, it really just supports that organic shift that the new neural pathways being developed, right? Like, oh, it's safe to feel this. Like, I can feel this and feel safe. And then as far as like, moving to the future, a lot of times that's the organic shift that happens so that it doesn't have to be like, okay, well, now what do I need to think? And now what do I need to do? So this, that I feel this way, it's that I do this way. It's not that that's a problem, right? Like, there's nothing wrong with doing that. But I see this deeper, you know, nervous system working, developing this safety, and then being seen in that can facilitate, you know, in my opinion, like more sustainable growth and healing for...

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Molly Claire 34:17

Yes. Yes. I mean, as you were talking, I think about so many times as I, you know, trained coaches over the years and they ask, when do you know that it's the time, right, to move to problem solving or to move to this? And certainly there is a place for that, right? And certainly there are indications that I can guide them, you know, you'll notice this, you'll notice this. And sometimes we simply don't have to, right? Sometimes the work that, I don't know, we might think is softer work or, you know, more supportive or held, it is all that it takes. And then the shift just happens. So yeah, I love it. So this is, this actually, Lindsay, you speaking to that moves me to this next thing that I would love to have each of you share, which is how have you seen? Because each of you definitely offer a new, broader view, no matter where a client's coming to you from, right? You are broadening their view and understanding of the whole approach of the nervous system and trauma and, you know, EFT and all of these things. How have you seen shifts specifically with coaches that you've worked with as they've expanded their view?

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Lindsay Poelman 35:32

For me, the approach that I have with my clientele, it's like, there's a very big energy shift behind how we approach our relationship with ourselves. Because a lot of times, when we think on a broader spectrum of society and what was modeled to us, I don't think people see how much we internalize from our external environment or stuff that we inherit and things like that. And so a lot of times, our default self-talk, our default self-blame, our default self-loathing, whatever you want to call it, our default thinking, is not necessarily what we chose. It was kind of what we internalized. And so really shifting that energy from one of whatever it might be for some people over to this side of the spectrum where there's curiosity, there's compassion, and we're developing out this really loving relationship with ourselves as is. And so what I feel like that fosters is just so much safety, and it takes away this a little bit like what I've seen on the other side of the spectrum, which is more of a band-aid approach where it's like you think something, you feel better for a minute, and it does shift your behavior in the short-term approach, but as far as long-term, sometimes it isn't up and sometimes it isn't. And so for me, just really supporting my clients in developing out this really nurturing, loving relationship with self and with younger selves and different things like that is so important because again, it negates when we can understand that and shift the context of which we think about ourselves and describe ourselves, it negates those misbehaviors. Is our body actually misbehaving in the first place? Or why does it actually make sense that there's this activation here? Why does this make sense? And I just feel like when we shift that and we can really hone in and love our body as is where in that moment, that relationship with self can really transform and transpire, which again, as we develop that out, creates more safety so that we can hear those calls or intuition more readily. So to me, it's like everything.

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Molly Claire 37:52

So important. I know, well, as you were talking, and then I'd love to hear also from you, Leah and Melanie as well on this. As you were talking, Lindsay, I was thinking just about how, so this question, right, of how have I seen things shift as my coaches and as I have gotten a broader view, and I can articulate so many things that are very tangible for sure. I can say, Oh, you know, it's, you get clarity on your goals. It's, you know, easier to move forward towards your goals. It's like all the things that we see in like marketing bullet points that people want, it helps all those things 100%. And the thing for me and for my clients who have benefited most from this, it is this deep sense of peace and self-connection that is like the best thing in the world. And so, yeah, you're going to meet your goals and you're going to do all the things, right? It's going to make all that easier. But it's like, when we can feel at peace with who we are and ourselves, and that's our baseline. I mean, come on, like it's the best thing ever.

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Lindsay Poelman 39:11

Yeah, regardless of what other people might be thinking or saying or things like that, right?

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Molly Claire 39:16

Yeah. And I can say for me, this is like an experience I've never had in my life prior to doing this work. I just got a message this morning from a client who was like, everything's coming up. Am I ever going to really not have this horribly mean voice just attacking me in my head when I'm trying to do things? And I'm like, I can say yes. Yes, it is possible. Right? I think this is the pathway getting there. So anyway, Melanie, Leah, would love to hear your thoughts.

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Leah Davidson 39:53

Again, I always come at things from that science perspective. And I think one thing that is really missed by people is that when we do get activated, when we do have a stress response, there's all these things physiologically that happens. But one thing that happens to us is we lose access to our thinking skills. We lose access to our frontal lobe, our decision-making. So when I work with a lot of coaches, especially if they've come from a big mindset background, or if they've LCS trained and worked with the model, there's a sense of relief that when I say to them, well, when you get activated, the model doesn't work. You have to be regulated to use the model. And they're like, what? Because they've been thinking for so long, what's wrong with me? Why can't I change my thoughts? And you can, as Lindsay said, sort of band-aid approach it. You can maybe change a thought for a period of time, but then if you don't embody it, then it's not going to stick. And so when they understand that, again, it's biology that prevents you from changing your thoughts and using your thoughts. And once we learn how to regulate your nervous system, once we learn how to come at things from safety, that's when you're going to I call it, it carries a different flavor. It has a set of thoughts, it has a set of feelings, it has a set of actions. And if you can't shift your nervous system, you're sort of stuck with that same flavor. So maybe you're mixing it up a little bit, but it's still going to be flavored the same way with activation or flavored with disconnection until you step into that zone of safety. And when you're safe, then your thinking skills come back online. You can really allow your feelings. You can accept yourself. You can find that piece. You can access your intuition. You'll have to have safety to do that. So I think for coaches, it's such a relief, first of all, to find out that it's just not me who's not able to think properly.

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Molly Claire 42:05

Yeah. And not do a good enough job of managing my mind, a good enough job of this. Yeah. And one of the things that as you were talking that when it comes to in this program and talking about advanced and expanded thought work and cognitive work is I like to think of it as it's really the way we can think about that response and recognize it, right? Is where thought work is still helpful. It's like when it comes to activation, it's the recognition of what it is. And so the relief of course is like, is recognizing it's almost like if we were to put, you know, pop a thought in a probably useful model, there is I need to take a different approach to this, right? Boom. And then, and then it brings that curiosity or relief or whatever. And then we do the work. And so, so I think that's, that's the part I get so well, I get so excited about many parts of this, but one of the parts I get so excited about is that because it's like, I think that when it comes to specifically cognitive work and you know, the LCS model or other thought models that people are maybe using is yes, there are so many ways to use and understand it when you have this broader picture. And so that's what I hope to do with the cognitive piece of this is like, here's the cognitive and then here's all the expansive ways you can use it in light of having more knowledge and understanding of biology, of the nervous system, of the body, all the things.

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Leah Davidson 43:41

Because when you understand the nervous system, you are then able to make decisions about do I want to use this model? Do I want to use this tool? What will be most effective and do trial and error? But when you're dysregulated, you're in survival mode. Survival mode is not meant for you. Should I have this thought or that thought? Should I decide to do this or should I decide? Should I have compassion, should I have survival? So when, if you are constantly in survival mode, you can just recognize that in yourself. This is why you're getting quote unquote stuck. It's not a weakness. It's not a moral failure. It's not, it's biology and your stress response. And we have to deal with that first. And when we allow that and accept that and acknowledge that and then introduce some tools to help us regulate, your whole world opens up and you'll have access to all the tools.

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Molly Claire 44:35

Yes. And as you were talking, this is one of those pieces of advice that stuck out to me. I don't even remember when my sister told me this, the advice from Big Sister always seems to make a difference, right? I don't know when she said this, but I just remember one day I called her and I was, I'm sure it was hormonal, emotions all over the place, and I was talking to her and I think I was trying to make a decision about something. And I remember she said to me, today is not a good day to think. You're not supposed to think today, you just don't think. And it was like, oh, I can do that, right? I can give myself permission and I use that. That is my method of choice quite often. Today's not the day to think, right? So anyway. Okay, Melanie, I'd love to hear from you on this as well as far as what you've seen as the biggest shifts with coaches and having a broader understanding.

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Melanie Fay 45:31

There's so many different ways to talk about it. But I'm going to say two things and I wish I could say that at once. And one is just piggybacking off something Leah said, which is this idea of paraphrasing in my own words now, the idea that the way you feel is the flavor, is a flavor that your nervous system will provide a different level of thoughts or a different, and depending on what state you're in, the quality of your thinking, the quality of how you're seeing the situation or the text message will be completely different. Our nervous system really colors our perception and our thoughts can come from our perception as well. So one of the things that I want to talk about in terms of tapping that I really, really appreciate is, so even though here I am, I have all these thoughts about the importance of kindness and the power of compassion and that every person matters, those are all my thoughts and beliefs. But what's so great about tapping and also nervous system work, but since that's what I do, that's what I'll talk about, is that when you have a client, whether it's yourself or it's one of your clients, and they're struggling with whatever they're struggling with, and maybe you're using thought work to try to help them see it in a different way, but they just can't change like we were talking about the flavor of their thoughts. They really need to shift into a new flavor with a tool like tapping. And again, I'm just talking specifically about what my specialty is. With a tool like tapping, you don't need to convince them of anything. You don't need to effort at all. You just get them to start tapping on these acupressure points and their nervous system will shift, will open up, will unfold. The feeling that's underneath will rise to the surface. So what I want to say is it's sort of like a really strong advertisement here, but it's my experience and I believe it with everything that I have, is that tapping, a tool like tapping is going to make your job easier. Because if you're kind of stalled out with a client, the gears are just not shifting. Even introducing five minutes of some neuro regulation or some tapping will get you into that other zone. So that's another thing. So for the only reason that you're interested in this at all is to want your job to be easier and to then feel more fulfilling and then maybe less spirals of your own self-doubt. Because we cannot override our client's nervous system either. If they're frozen in fear, then there is nothing you can do and that's not your fault at all as a coach. But what we can do is have these tools that then help get our clients' minds back online. And then you can use all your cognitive coaching skills to then address the things that we're able to do with our prefrontal lobe, the things that we're able to do with our conscious choice. In terms of the changes that I've seen, it depends on why the person is coming to me in the first place. But overall, there's always a change towards self-compassion, self-kindness, deeper understanding. And with that self-compassion and kindness and deeper understanding, there's also a deeper knowing about who you actually are. Because once you start to understand why, like Lindsay said, this activation makes sense, then we're also rediscovering other parts of ourselves, like our sensitivity. Like, oh my gosh, I thought it was just an angry person, but I'm a really sensitive person. And I know that now because I can feel that sensitivity inside me. So just trying to wrap it up. Nervous system regulation, I would say, leads to authenticity because we're able to feel who we are, not just who we think we are.

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Molly Claire 49:34

And I think also it really lends itself to having deeper and greater and more authentic connections with other people. Because when there's a part of us that is in any level of activation or it's like, I guess what I'll say is if I'm not settled in myself and I'm in any form of fight or flight or whatever is happening, I can certainly connect with people. But guess what? When we're so self-connected and really with our authentic self, it's like this deep sense of relaxation. I can really learn more about someone else, the other people in my life and understand them and be with them in that way, which I think is one of the greatest gifts of this work too.

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Leah Davidson 50:27

And I think that it also in the same vein, we are so much more accepting of other people. We realize that it's their nervous system. It's their history. It's their imprints. They're not necessarily deliberately doing something. I especially find it with my kids. It has been so, so, so helpful. Just when I communicate with them to really notice that, oh, this is their nervous system. And I don't know all the imprints that they've had throughout their life. I may think I know because I've been a mom, but I really have no clue. And it just allows like, just so much more space between us. We can be accepting, we can be more nurturing, we can be more tolerant of each other, and to provide that element of safety. So safety for myself and then safety for the other person that I'm communicating with.

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Molly Claire 51:21

Yeah. And I just, I'm going to tack onto that as well, that, you know, we can have more compassion and be more understanding and also have enough compassion for self to set boundaries at times, right? Because yes, we can understand someone else. We can have compassion for them. And we can also choose where and how they fit in our life. And I know, Lindsay, one of the things that, you know, you've taught and will be sharing as well in this program is kind of about those boundaries, right? And recognizing behaviors that if someone has, you know, abusive behaviors, I know I'm going off on just a little bit of a side note, but it, but I wanted to emphasize this because I know sometimes, especially coaches that I, people that I work with who, it can be very easy to make excuses for other people. They can err on the side of being so understanding that they think that they don't have any rights. Like where are they in all of this, right? So I wanted to highlight this because what Leah is saying is so true. We can have more understanding and be more tolerant. And we also can put such loving, clear boundaries in place for our own life. I think both can come as a result of this.

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Lindsay Poelman 52:38

Yeah. Can I just say something to Molly? I was thinking about an image that came to my mind as Melanie was talking to is like, you know, when we speak to these other modalities, they can just be so, so impactful. And I was just kind of thinking about like, if there were some results that you wanted, let's say it was like getting to a pond at the bottom of a river, you know, I think sometimes with these different winds that we have, and this may not be the most perfect analogy, but sometimes with different winds that we have, it's almost like getting caught on things while we're like, like the natural flow to me is like, you know, is the flow like going and getting to that pond, right? And we may be getting like caught on things as we, you know, go through life and have, you know, there's wounding and, you know, potential trauma and things like that. And so while I could just like learn to like kick and, and swim and like really build up like a lot of tapping and like release myself from those sticks that are like clinging to me, right? Or, or some other modality. And so that's one thing that I love about, you know, these different modalities of, of healing that we have is it can become, you know, what if it is just about a matter of like releasing these things that are kind of keeping us from our natural flow so that we can kind of just go in that direction where we're natural in any way versus thinking that we have to like do it like just the thought work way or just this other way. You know what I mean?

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Molly Claire 54:07

Yes. And I love that you brought that up because it is, it's such a different way of even thinking about the whole thing, right? It's like, we're taught to really learn to kick and fight and build the muscles. And there's value in building our muscles in many ways, right? And having grit and overcoming all of those things. And I think that there are, I guess what I will say is one of the things I'm really excited about in this space and in this program and here is that there's all of this permission to really care for yourself every step of the way as you figure out how to move forward, right? And so that with Lindsay's analogy, it's like understanding that we can do something like tapping, caring for our nervous system, paying attention to how we feel these kinds of things. Not only are those the way to continue to move and expand and go toward our goals and grow in these powerful ways, but I think it also, I don't know that I'm articulating this in exactly the way that I want to, but there's a lot of power in giving permission for that way of going about it to be okay, right? And it is okay. It's like we're all there saying, yes, your feelings matter. If you're having nervous system activation, if you're needing to tap, if you're needing any of this, do that. Care for yourself first. And I actually, I saw this really great quote the other day that just came to my mind and I don't have it on my brain exactly, but it was something along the lines of, instead of asking, have I worked hard enough to deserve rest? Why don't we instead ask, have I had enough of the rest that I need in order to do my best work? And I was like, Oh my gosh, right? That's it. And so here I'm quoting it. I don't, it's on my phone. I saved it. I'm not even sure who said it. If you said it, thank you. But I think that's the thing. And that's my hope for all of the coaches that are a part of this, that not only will you learn that for yourself, but also for your clients, how do we care for ourselves and our needs in every single way so that we can do our best work? How can we be so cared for and rested and strong and clear that we can meet our goals, that we can overcome, that we can do all of this? So that's really my hope for it. I love that analogy, Lindsay. Yeah. So I do want to, want to wrap up this episode. And I do think I probably need to have you all back either individually or altogether. There's so much we could say. I'm sure this has been so beneficial for all of you to hear these, these women. One thing that I wanted to just touch on today, and that is a common question of where is the line between therapy and coaching and all the things we're talking about, especially doing cognitive work, awareness of the nervous system and emotions sounds an awful lot like the therapy space. And the way I think about it is that there is a very clear line between coaching and therapy and not a clear line at all. I think kind of both can be true. And so in this master coach training, I will be talking about ethics, teaching that, and also understanding what the signs are that someone definitely needs to be referred to a therapist.

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Molly Claire 57:31

They need to work with a trauma therapist. They need to work with someone that specializes in what they are dealing with. There are definitely times in which that is the best place for your client to go. And perhaps the only place your client should go. There are also times when you will see absolutely there are signs that this person needs to be working with a specially trained therapist in what they're dealing with. And they can work with you at the same time. And those are complimentary. And in general, I think that when you as a coach are properly trained to know and understand when someone needs that, we also can just make space to know that there are things we do with our clients that certainly therapists also are doing with their clients. And one of the things I know that Lindsay, I believe you have an episode all about this, this idea that we're all working toward the same thing, right? Coaches, therapists, anyone in the space of helping people to heal and move forward and make their life better, we're all on the same team. And so this is kind of my belief at a high level and some of the things you can expect. And I really think that with more knowledge, we can be much more confident in knowing when someone should not be working with us and also being comfortable with that gray area, that space that's in between and knowing we can support them in a really safe way. All right. Thank you so much, Melanie and Leah and Lindsay for being here. It's been such a great conversation. Thank you so much. And for you coaches listening, I'm so honored to bring these women to you. I think I'm still pinching myself and can't even believe that we're doing this in this coming year. If you are interested in applying for master coach training, of course, go to MollyClaire.com and you can sign up there. So more to come. Thank you so much, ladies.